the Eternals - MCU Movie

Looking for a dose of entertainment? For movies, TV, and music - the Multiplex is your spot.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:03 am

I am too but at the same time... I wonder if there is some kind of catastrophe fatigue happening on Earth. Like the end of Clue (SPOILERS for a movie from the 80s):
Spoiler! :
Where, rather than shrieking when they come upon a dead body like earlier in the movie, they now wander from room to room, calmly and even exhaustedly noting another body before shuffling on to the next.
Half the people disappeared, then reappeared, the world was almost destroyed a handful of times, then a big stone thing in the ocean...

Image
User avatar
100ptsofarticulation
Glass Half Empty
Contact:
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 10991
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:27 pm

Recently re-watched this and I still liked it. About the only thing I didn't like about this movie is the lack of Kirby inspired costumes and overall feel it needed and that is one of the things I didn't like when seeing the early previews. But I made it past that and was still able to like it.

So what was everyone's major gripe with this movie?
User avatar
CTVampSlayer
X-23 gots a boyfriend
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:20 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:32 pm

I loved it when it came out, watched it again last week and still loved it. I think time will be kinder to it, I've already seen a lot of backlash-reversal about it online with people saying "Hey, I finally watched Eternals and liked it. Why didn't everyone else?" which is kind of funny.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about any given piece of art, superhero movies included, but I hope the fandom evolves a little bit at least to the point of realizing how ~controversial~ MCU movies become whenever the protagonist is female. Captain Marvel, Black Widow, and Eternals dealt with such overblown backlash from the usual suspects and it's disheartening to watch people get swept up in it without allowing the stories and characters to stand on their own merits.
User avatar
AdrienVeidt
A Smaller Man of a Smaller Scale
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:50 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:39 pm

I need to watch it again but I think my biggest gripe is that it veers from the bitchin'-cool origin of the 616 and EarthX variant future/past.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:07 pm

CTVampSlayer wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:32 pm
I loved it when it came out, watched it again last week and still loved it. I think time will be kinder to it, I've already seen a lot of backlash-reversal about it online with people saying "Hey, I finally watched Eternals and liked it. Why didn't everyone else?" which is kind of funny.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about any given piece of art, superhero movies included, but I hope the fandom evolves a little bit at least to the point of realizing how ~controversial~ MCU movies become whenever the protagonist is female. Captain Marvel, Black Widow, and Eternals dealt with such overblown backlash from the usual suspects and it's disheartening to watch people get swept up in it without allowing the stories and characters to stand on their own merits.
That's a good point and I didn't even realize Eternals fell into that.

Now watch with She Hulk since apparently in that show...
Spoiler! :
They have a character parodying incels.
As far as Eternals, my criticisms were always really minimal. I think I've seen it three or four times now? But still love it. Gorgeous movie with a lot of emotional stuff to me anyway. I'm always about characters I can get into and this movie delivered. It makes the big slugfest or CG fight at the end better for me if I'm connected to the characters like that.
User avatar
CTVampSlayer
X-23 gots a boyfriend
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:20 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:05 pm

Ru_1977 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:07 pm
CTVampSlayer wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:32 pm
I loved it when it came out, watched it again last week and still loved it. I think time will be kinder to it, I've already seen a lot of backlash-reversal about it online with people saying "Hey, I finally watched Eternals and liked it. Why didn't everyone else?" which is kind of funny.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about any given piece of art, superhero movies included, but I hope the fandom evolves a little bit at least to the point of realizing how ~controversial~ MCU movies become whenever the protagonist is female. Captain Marvel, Black Widow, and Eternals dealt with such overblown backlash from the usual suspects and it's disheartening to watch people get swept up in it without allowing the stories and characters to stand on their own merits.
That's a good point and I didn't even realize Eternals fell into that.

Now watch with She Hulk since apparently in that show...
Spoiler! :
They have a character parodying incels.
As far as Eternals, my criticisms were always really minimal. I think I've seen it three or four times now? But still love it. Gorgeous movie with a lot of emotional stuff to me anyway. I'm always about characters I can get into and this movie delivered. It makes the big slugfest or CG fight at the end better for me if I'm connected to the characters like that.

I was more sensitive to it because as a queer person of color a lot of the negative response to Eternals was very transparent (to me) and an evolution of the controversies around Captain Marvel and Black Widow, which bothered me because fandom as an entity never discusses how big, loud, and inescapable the Social Injustice Warrior/Anti-Wokeness Mob segment of it is. Up until recently with Ewan McGregor and the Star Wars fandom, but I've never seen it happen in any major way with Marvel (I think Don Cheadle called out the fans for bashing Brie Larson but he was the only one IIRC.) It's disappointing because those people seem so organized, and get better at organizing with every new non-white lead in a CBM to the point that people don't even recognize their couched rhetoric when they're starting up one of their hate campaigns. When Eternals came out I saw someone I've known for years retweet a review that started off with something like "Going woke won't save THIS Marvel flop!" written by a straight white dude (no offense to any of them) where I'm just like...do you even realize what you're allying with right now? For the sake of dunking on what's popular? It was very strange.

There was plenty of valid criticism I read about the movie too (ex. too long, too many characters, too philosophical, not superheroic enough, too dissimilar to the standard MCU formula) and I don't begrudge anyone those opinions; they're fair, not everything works for everyone. It's just that there was also so much "ew, it's woke" "ew, too many girls" "ew, too many nonwhite characters" "ew, a female director" "ew, one of them is gay" feedback that felt like an elephant in the room.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:15 pm

CTVampSlayer wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:05 pm
I was more sensitive to it because as a queer person of color a lot of the negative response to Eternals was very transparent (to me) and an evolution of the controversies around Captain Marvel and Black Widow, which bothered me because fandom as an entity never discusses how big, loud, and inescapable the Social Injustice Warrior/Anti-Wokeness Mob segment of it is. Up until recently with Ewan McGregor and the Star Wars fandom, but I've never seen it happen in any major way with Marvel (I think Don Cheadle called out the fans for bashing Brie Larson but he was the only one IIRC.) It's disappointing because those people seem so organized, and get better at organizing with every new non-white lead in a CBM to the point that people don't even recognize their couched rhetoric when they're starting up one of their hate campaigns. When Eternals came out I saw someone I've known for years retweet a review that started off with something like "Going woke won't save THIS Marvel flop!" written by a straight white dude (no offense to any of them) where I'm just like...do you even realize what you're allying with right now? For the sake of dunking on what's popular? It was very strange.

There was plenty of valid criticism I read about the movie too (ex. too long, too many characters, too philosophical, not superheroic enough, too dissimilar to the standard MCU formula) and I don't begrudge anyone those opinions; they're fair, not everything works for everyone. It's just that there was also so much "ew, it's woke" "ew, too many girls" "ew, too many nonwhite characters" "ew, a female director" "ew, one of them is gay" feedback that felt like an elephant in the room.
The bold part made me chuckle because... that's the stuff I loved about it. I wanted it even longer, loved the ensemble nature, LOVED the philosophical potential, appreciated it was barely a superhero story, and really cherished it stands out from the MCU for breaking the formula. mostly. But I was always aware if wouldn't be for everyone and also don't begrudge anyone for disliking it.

And honestly... I think it's been so long for me since I've read any reviews or reactions to the movie that I can take the movie in on its own without all the outward noise that surrounded it upon release. But, and this isn't a backhanded reaction or condescending in any way... more an admission to how limited my personal scope is.... but as as white, hetero male, I kinda have the luxury of being able to tune all that out and enjoy a movie for what it is. I absolutely get how it can affect someone who is seeing someone like themself, possibly for the first time, in a major superhero movie while others (even apparently friends) are actively trying to tarnish the experience. It's disgusting and I really wish people had better things to devote all that passion to. Or maybe not... since some of them are people who can actually accomplish things.
User avatar
CTVampSlayer
X-23 gots a boyfriend
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:20 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:37 pm

Oh, same. To me, Eternals was about idol worship/organized religion/devotion to authority vs. free will told via "superhero story." I prefer my sci-fi to include social commentary and subversive themes because that's more interesting to me than how much Hulk can bench press. Stuff like X-Men, Watchmen, Ex-Machina, Buffy, etc. There's room for everyone in nerd culture because there are nerds in every culture. It's just ugly and upsetting to constantly have to see and hear the -only- demographic who has never lived in a world that didn't affirm their identity on a perpetual basis (using mainstream media) tell everyone else they don't deserve to have the same thing, and actively work against it.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:42 pm

I have nothing to add to that beyond a lame nod in agreement. But yeah!
User avatar
AdrienVeidt
A Smaller Man of a Smaller Scale
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:50 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:55 pm

ScruffySecond.jpg
fac
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:21 pm

Ru_1977 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:15 pm
...LOVED the philosophical potential...
This is where the movie fell down for me, because it was philosophical potential that to me never really got going beyond a fairly trite "is humanity worth saving" sort of conundrum. Since we never saw the Celestials really do anything "good", and saw the Eternals supposedly guiding humanity along in its advances, it undersold the value of both humans and Celestials - and I felt they never truly sold the conflict on the part of the Eternals as to what to do. They picked sides for pretty bland reasons, one was driven insane by past memories, but a "do we blindly follow the group that misled us" or "chose what we think is right" is potentially a good story but not convinced they pulled it off. (Compare this to a movie that really tackles following orders vs doing what is right like "Paths of Glory"). A more interesting conflict would be them struggling as both options had pros and cons but they had no way of knowing what was "right" per se as the implications were beyond their (and our) ability to comprehend, they didn't have the knowledge to make a fully informed choice. What if the Celestial really was going to bring about unique life, and protect it, on 1,000s of planets over millions of years, and now that won't happen? What about all the other life on Earth and its potential, and the potential in the future for other advanced life to develop here, and not just humans? Is basing the decision on this moment in time the right call - if the Earth hit critical mass 250 years ago would the decision be different? The Eternals never really asked the question as to whether there was an alternative where the Celestial might live, or why would the Celestials have a process for emergence that required such destruction?

The film didn't need to become a Philosophy class, but if you are going to broach those topics of life, duty, faith, morality - at least try to play it out with a bit more complexity than a scenario that has a foregone conclusion where no one in the audience really thought killing the Celestial was the wrong call.

It was pretty clear the Celestials were "bad" or at least amoral. It was pretty clear that the Eternals had been lied to or at very least misled. Apart from a few romances they never expressed much interest in humanity as actual people - even Phastos knew his family would get old and die off well before he did. It was pretty clear (as a human being) that destroying the Earth from the audience perspective wasn't a great outcome, not sure they really tried too hard to make the case why not killing the Celestial might be something to even consider.

So the audience was left waiting for them to pick sides and do the only right thing - so where was the conflict?

Some of that annoyance might be my view that the "humanity is a failure because we still do bad things to each other at times" argument is trite and superficial. In the real world, we are the only species among the millions that exist on Earth that have massively improved our health, longevity and quality of life, that even contemplate moral issues, that really do anything beyond basic survival and can even consider, envision and work together to achieve improvements long term. If humanity is a failure than there are no successes. Understanding we can do better, and people strive for that, is a success on its own merit.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:01 am

Well dayum.... That was such a compelling read and I wish I had more of a response for it. But thank you for saying all that. I can't really argue against that. I wonder if a series would have been better, or limited series, but I'm not sure how well they could have handled it there either with the track record so far on Disney plus. Not to poopoo on those shows but I feel they haven't quite found their footing with depth on the streaming service yet.

But yeah I agree a lot of things that were touched on would have greatly benefited from getting fleshed completely out. Exploring the questions and arguments without leaning on simplistic and, I agree, trite reasoning. It's an ensemble movie so I kinda accept that a lot of stuff will basically be bullet points but still. Yeah, the potential was really intriguing and maybe as a series it could have seriously launched a lot of concepts that would be worth thinking about.
User avatar
AdrienVeidt
A Smaller Man of a Smaller Scale
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:50 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:15 pm

ScruffySecond.jpg
JPC
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 3884
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:23 pm

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:49 am

Ru_1977 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:01 am
It's an ensemble movie so I kinda accept that a lot of stuff will basically be bullet points but still. Yeah, the potential was really intriguing and maybe as a series it could have seriously launched a lot of concepts that would be worth thinking about.
This is the part that gets me - all of these characters are designed for serial storytelling. That's how they've endured for decades - continued storytelling. But movies are inherently self-contained stories, or have been, to an extent Marvel is uniquely challenging. And now that more and more characters are getting a spotlight, it's taking longer and longer to continue their stories (and adding television shows that aren't actually TV shows but only long movies cut up only muddies the storytelling ability).

Stories on film become finite and limited, and once you attach actors to it, they become artificially limited. For instance, it makes global narrative sense for Natasha to be leading the Avengers in the next phase if not for ScarJo wanting to make other movies, and I think the overall MCU is hurt by her not being around as the anchor (note the big complaint about Phase 4 - no direction).

Back to Eternals: That the movie didn't boil down or nail the conflict is totally on the creative team, and I agree that the creative team did not nail it. But the potential is ripe and I want to see these characters taken on by a new creative team who might nail it - I don't want to see Chloe's vision again. I do want to see these actors playing these characters again, and get another perspective on them that might be more engaging, and make these eternal robots feel more human. Kinda like Taika did with Ragnarok.

And just like with Thor, I think once these actors get to play again, it will enrich Eternals even more.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7023
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: the Eternals - MCU Movie

Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:00 am

I can agree about the way they're handling their shows so far. The long movie concept... even on other shows that are thought of that way, they are still a series and each episode has not only a clear beginning, middle, and end, but also a theme. Even when you have A, B, and C stories going on at once, they all tie into the same theme. I've said elsewhere I think, but I think we're still in the clumsy growing years of Disney Plus but eventually the focus will swing more toward quality and strong storytelling over the rush to fill the platform with content, any content!

Or maybe I'm wrong and they'll just make this work forever. But She Hulk seems like it may be more episodic than most marvel shows.

Return to “The Multiplex”





Recent Topics