Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:40 am

Hmmm.... I was also annoyed at how the destructive nature of the TVA was played for laughs but the discussion in here is making me agree that the TVA and/or Time Keepers are in fact the baddies and the comedy and the casting of Owen Wilson are meant to throw us off the scent.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:57 am

MCUCompletionist wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:59 am
Aleks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:44 am
MCUCompletionist wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:38 am
Idk dude its pretty simple.
It's really not.
MCUCompletionist wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:38 am
TVA erases the timelines that diverge, that's what the reset bombs were or whatever. I doubt they can stick the stones in a paper shredder so of course you keep them around. They're still powerful but there are simply no one in the TVA that would do anything with them. So keep em in a drawer.
If TVA erases the timelines that diverge, why can't they leave stones in those timelines? They will also be erased, right? Or not? Then why keep them if they don't really care?
They keep them for paperweights, its been said quite often Infinity Stones can't be destroyed, so either they leave extra stones floating through time and space or they take them to a place that exists outside of time.

It's not even specifically stones, they take everything that's not supposed to be there, they took the bubblegum too in the church. If you leave things that dont be long then you're disturbing the sacred timeline.
I saw a post that made it make sense to me, stating that outside of their respective timelines or space the infinity stones no longer have any power so they would be just paper weights.

It's not making the mcu infinity saga pointless its just saying in the realm the tva exists in those things are no longer objects of power.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:13 am

Magnuz wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:57 am
It's not making the mcu infinity saga pointless its just saying in the realm the tva exists in those things are no longer objects of power.
Predetermined timeline created by Three Aliens Gods, thats what makes mcu infinity saga pointless to me. Tony Stark didn't make a choice to become Iron Man. Three "lizard people" decided that for him. Imagine that in all other variations he refused and TVA had to reset the timeline every time until he made up his mind. This is just pure nonsense. No choice any character has ever made actually means anything, that's just the way it was determined to be by some aliens. Why even care about what happens now lol.

Unless of course what they say is true...I sure [email protected]#$ hope not.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:35 pm

I'm completely unbothered by that implication. Just because they monitor the timeline doesn't mean they intervene, right?

Even if they did, I don't really care. It's a small sacrifice to make to get "fun" stories like this one. Free will might not be real anyway, who knows.

I really liked the first episode. I'm glad Marvel understands what they've got with Loki and Hiddleston. My only question:
Spoiler! :
Are we sure Loki is the time-hopping bad guy? I know Mobius said he is, but I'm a little skeptical.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:49 pm

Aleks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:13 am
Magnuz wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:57 am
It's not making the mcu infinity saga pointless its just saying in the realm the tva exists in those things are no longer objects of power.
Predetermined timeline created by Three Aliens Gods, thats what makes mcu infinity saga pointless to me. Tony Stark didn't make a choice to become Iron Man. Three "lizard people" decided that for him. Imagine that in all other variations he refused and TVA had to reset the timeline every time until he made up his mind. This is just pure nonsense. No choice any character has ever made actually means anything, that's just the way it was determined to be by some aliens. Why even care about what happens now lol.

Unless of course what they say is true...I sure [email protected]#$ hope not.
You should take a look at my post about pre-destiny and fate NOT necessarily being in conflict with free will. Your view of these things is just narrower than the vast scope of human beliefs over the course of history.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:14 pm

I don't view it as them determining everything for the MCU, just ensuring what happened happened. Tony made his choice, they just made sure nothing else interfered. Yes you can view that as them forcing a path but its more of them keeping people on it.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:36 pm

Moreover, time travel has basically always existed in the Marvel Universe (cinematic and otherwise). In most versions of time travel across all forms of media and in most settings, the very existence of time travel implies a 'correct' path leading into the future unless your setting has decillions and decillions and decillions of different time streams because every 'variant' action possible DOES happen and creates a different time stream. Most settings don't operate under that assumption. So.. you were always going to do this, and they were always going to do that, because that is the correct flow of time and we know that because someone in the future can look into the past and see all those actions. That's -only- not true of there's, again, decillions upon decillions of extant futures.

So the complaint of 'this takes away free will' is toothless and poorly-considered, in my opinion.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:58 pm

TheSameIdiot wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:35 pm
I'm completely unbothered by that implication. Just because they monitor the timeline doesn't mean they intervene, right?

Even if they did, I don't really care. It's a small sacrifice to make to get "fun" stories like this one. Free will might not be real anyway, who knows.

I really liked the first episode. I'm glad Marvel understands what they've got with Loki and Hiddleston. My only question:
Spoiler! :
Are we sure Loki is the time-hopping bad guy? I know Mobius said he is, but I'm a little skeptical.
Spoiler! :
I feel like it'll end up being a Lady Loki variant.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:27 am

TheSameIdiot wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:35 pm
Just because they monitor the timeline doesn't mean they intervene, right?

Even if they did, I don't really care.

I think they are. They destroy all different timelines and everyone in it. These "reset bombs" are even more stronger than the Infinity Stones now (what's even more stupid). I really don't see anything "fun" here. That means Steve didn't have to put those stones back in place in the Endgame, because TVA would come and destroy other timelines. Did they also destroy the timeline in which Steve lived with Peggy? It seems not. Why?

Also, why did they even grab Loki if they were going to destroy that timeline? He could have escaped with a tesseract, they would come later, plant the bomb and erase the timeline. All this for the sake of the court? But they don't really have it, they didn't even plan to leave him alive initially, until Owen Wilson character intervened.

I just have a suspicion that they are all clinically stupid and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Just like the writers. It's great to create cool and fun stories. But not when it retroactively destroys your entire universe.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:51 am

I think your being a bit over zealous in your interpretation of everything and how it affects the overall universe.

It's not necessarily so cut and dry or all encompassing. We don't actually know anything about the tva, we've seen one episode and seen them do some stuff but we don't know who really controls them, what they are doing really does just what they say. Nothing is guaranteed here especially this early on.

It's like watching the good place and one episode in and you think you know everything, chick faked her way into heaven comedy ensues. Little do you know
Spoiler! :
it's actually hell and heavens big stupid test
so let's not make too many assumptions.

I've already seen posts pointing out that one of the time keepers looks like
Spoiler! :
Kang
And this show could introduce him. God knows the devil window will make people start predicting mephisto again like wandavision but if that show taught you anything it's don't assume everything is cut and dry black and white clear as it seems from what you think after one episode.

Let's watch a few episodes before we lambast the whole writing team for undoing the entire mcu.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:14 am

I guess I just see how the rest of the MCU shows turned out. Nothing special and unpredictable. From the first episode it was clear who did what. Wanda is the villain who created reality herself. Sam will become Cap, etc. At least for me. Now I don't expect any special plot twists. They are not really needed anyway.
Spoiler! :
Obviously, the Loki they are after is the Lady Loki. Perhaps we will see other versions of Loki. TVA will become villains, Loki will destroy them and create a problem with the multiverse. Or something similar, who knows.
Nevertheless, even the first episode created so many problems for me. My problem is mainly with the script and how writers neglect a lot of things. The writers wanted Loki back, but did not think of how to properly fit him into the plot. Or how their decisions affect the big picture and previous films.

Let's see what happens in the end, but for some reason I imagine a bunch of plot holes, ignored answers and things that just don't make sense and ruin previous films.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:50 pm

scribb wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:40 am
Hmmm.... I was also annoyed at how the destructive nature of the TVA was played for laughs but the discussion in here is making me agree that the TVA and/or Time Keepers are in fact the baddies and the comedy and the casting of Owen Wilson are meant to throw us off the scent.
They run the universe according to it meeting their desires; which have been established as *not* being 'what's best for everyone and right for the aggrieved' but whatever they deem as 'sacred'.

They're the exact same as Thanos, except with variant timelines substituting for lifeforms.

Of course they're the bad guys.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:55 pm

Aleks wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:13 am
Magnuz wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:57 am
It's not making the mcu infinity saga pointless its just saying in the realm the tva exists in those things are no longer objects of power.
Predetermined timeline created by Three Aliens Gods, thats what makes mcu infinity saga pointless to me. Tony Stark didn't make a choice to become Iron Man. Three "lizard people" decided that for him. Imagine that in all other variations he refused and TVA had to reset the timeline every time until he made up his mind. This is just pure nonsense. No choice any character has ever made actually means anything, that's just the way it was determined to be by some aliens. Why even care about what happens now lol.

Unless of course what they say is true...I sure [email protected]#$ hope not.
Whether or not omniscient beings know the future beyond his choice doesn't in any way, shape, or form negate the psychological development of Tony Stark that drove him to make the choices he did. The fact that there are an infinite number of variant universe is the thing that requires him to make *every* choice throughout the entire realm of possibility. THAT'S what truly removes free will from an individual, the Multiverse. The Multiverse requires that some version of you make every choice possible for you to make at every possible divergence point throughout your lifetime. It's only ignorance of which universe one is in that gives the illusion of free will.

The TVA deciding after the fact which of those variants they allow to live has *zero* bearing on the freedom of choice the individuals had because the Multiverse itself denies them that freedom.
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:59 pm

Magnuz wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:51 am
I've already seen posts pointing out that one of the time keepers looks like
Spoiler! :
Kang
And this show could introduce him. God knows the devil window will make people start predicting mephisto again like wandavision but if that show taught you anything it's don't assume everything is cut and dry black and white clear as it seems from what you think after one episode.
Eh, that's because of the wood paneling being artsy with the mis-leveling looking like the mask lines, imho:
Image
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Re: Loki - MCU Disney+ Series

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:47 pm

I think it's not only possible that Kang is one of the three faces, but it's possible that he is all three faces.

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