2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:00 pm

minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:24 pm
I find it amusing when people say Hasbro making X did not prevent them making Y, as if Hasbro has unlimited factory capability and as if unlimited shipping containers can traverse the Pacific Ocean and if unlimited port workers can unload the unlimited containers to the unlimited supply of truck drivers waiting to pick them up. Meanwhile toilet paper is starting to become unobtainable, again.
People--like me--say it because it's absolutely true.

It's not about "unlimited factory capability." Hasbro has significantly increased their output of Marvel Legends figures over the years. This mentality of "the character I want didn't get made, but this other character did. That character stole my character's spot!" is absurd. Hasbro could have made Banshee if they wanted to. They chose not to. Their decision *to* make MODOK did not prevent them from making Banshee. They have internal discussions about what characters they're going to make that very likely involve myriad factors we can only guess at, but it's just not the case that whatever random niche/obscure character is the reason you didn't get a character you'd rather have. That's not how it works.
The real big kicker here is that if Elvis MODOK doesn’t sell out, and it won’t, then the costs of producing this unsold toy will be added to future figures. Much like the cost of shoplifting result in higher prices for paying consumers.
That is always true; not every figure is a home run. The cost of those misses gets passed along already and always has. It will get spread out over the multitude of their lines, just like it always has.
Hasbro has bills to pay. They have to pay factories, shipping containers, employee staff, etc. Their employees aren’t going to say “oh we didn’t sell enough MODOKs, don’t worry about this weeks paycheck, I’ll accept skipping getting paid”
This is facile. MODOK is one product out of THOUSANDS that Hasbro produces. Not every product is going to sell out in a matter of days, nor should they. It's not "poor business" to have a product that is widely available to customers for more than five minutes, and it's not going to leave their employees sitting around wondering if they're getting paid. *Slow* sales are not necessarily a *loss*. It's possible that they over-produced this particular set, but there's an awful lot of doom and gloom over a set being available for more than a day. "If this doesn't sell out, then people aren't going to get paid!" is delusional.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:04 pm

There's a difference between not selling out immediately (or in a couple of days) and not selling well. Elvis MODOK appears to not be selling well if it has sold less than 1,000 units so far. Not all product choices succeed so I doubt this is causing too much consternation, given the $12 million that Galactus did. But still I am sure they will review.

I will Monday Morning Quarterback just a bit in wondering why they modified the MODOK sculpt so you couldn't interchange the retail release face plates and hair. Or, utilizing that design, sold the Captain with the Elvis hair and faceplate as an accessory if you already had MODOK and priced it at $40.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:05 pm

minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:42 pm
spideyboy1111 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:33 pm

this is a massive over-reaction...

MODOK like all exclusives, will eventually sell out.. even if it takes a year. it will sell out. and Hasbro will get their money even if they have to wait. They are not going to raise prices because a online exclusive flopped.
I’m not reacting at all, either over or under. I’m simply stating economic truths. Which is that bad business decisions raise prices on future products.

The exact amount an unsold MODOK would cause prices to increase is trivial. Maybe 1/10 of a cent of all future marvel legends. And since they don’t raise prices except in large integer movements, it won’t immediately raise prices at all. But if several flops occur over a few years, plus material and salary and shipping inflation, we get a 50 cent to $1 price increase across the line and Elvis MODOK was partly responsible. Not enough to worry about for any of us. But I can’t stand outside in a storm and pretend the reason I’m getting wet isn’t the rain so I feel compelled to respond to economic fallacies discussed here so we can all grow and learn. I’m not trying to argue with anyone and I’m certainly not upset.

And your comment ignores more economic realities. There’s a cost to delayed sales. If MODOK takes one year to sell out, there’s a carrying cost of storage for that one year. Warehouse space costs money. Further, inflation erodes the value of the dollar over time. $74 in one year is worth a lot less than $74 today. Certainly their employees won’t wait one extra year for their October paychecks.
my point is Hasbro is not a small business.. their existence and pay-role does not depend on a modok elvis flinging hamburgers to keep their buisness afloat.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:09 pm

fac wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:04 pm
I will Monday Morning Quarterback just a bit in wondering why they modified the MODOK sculpt so you couldn't interchange the retail release face plates and hair. Or, utilizing that design, sold the Captain with the Elvis hair and faceplate as an accessory if you already had MODOK and priced it at $40.
Just a guess: when they originally made MODOK, they probably weren't thinking about the Nextwave version. Nextwave's MODOKs don't have the purple headband, so the face is a different shape. Without being able to remove the hair on original MODOK, you wouldn't be able to make Elvis MODOK. Looking at the two, I don't really see how you'd make them work with each other unless you went back in time and redesigned old MODOK so that you're swapping the entire head/headband/hair instead of just the face. (and, of course, you'd need to replace the "joystick" from original MODOK so it's the microphone from nextwave, and the little waveform thing on the original that is a cheeseburger launcher on the Nextwave one).
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:12 pm

I think it's safe to say that the MODOK set was a bit overpriced and niche to warrant the speedy sales we've seen of exclusives in the past. Imagine how it would have done at retail. I'm certain it will sell through (given the limited exclusive nunbers)

For those who are happy to have a Captain - congrats. For those who think think MODOK is a cool version have on the shelves - that's great.

I suspect that next year's exclusive won't be structured this way (overpriced BAF/Deluxe of a single panel character with a well-executed obscure character).
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:34 pm

Samael13 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:00 pm
minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:24 pm
I find it amusing when people say Hasbro making X did not prevent them making Y, as if Hasbro has unlimited factory capability and as if unlimited shipping containers can traverse the Pacific Ocean and if unlimited port workers can unload the unlimited containers to the unlimited supply of truck drivers waiting to pick them up. Meanwhile toilet paper is starting to become unobtainable, again.
People--like me--say it because it's absolutely true.

It's not about "unlimited factory capability." Hasbro has significantly increased their output of Marvel Legends figures over the years. This mentality of "the character I want didn't get made, but this other character did. That character stole my character's spot!" is absurd. Hasbro could have made Banshee if they wanted to. They chose not to. Their decision *to* make MODOK did not prevent them from making Banshee.
Does Hasbro hate money? Or does Hasbro think they could make more money selling Elvis MODOK than Banshee? I don't understand why Hasbro wouldn't do both, unless they could only do one. I'm using "Banshee" as a proxy for any of a myriad of top requested figures that have been desired for years. Substitute in any of another bunch of figures that would have outsold Elvis MODOK.

Why wouldn't Hasbro "want" to make Banshee now, if not for limited resources?

Do people who make the unlimited resource argument have a job? I have a job and when my boss wants me to work on X project, it means I cannot work on Y project, which gets delayed, and sometimes cancelled. The scupltor who worked on Elvis MODOK only had finite hours in the day and couldn't work on sculpting a different figure instead, perhaps Banshee.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:40 pm

Who else got the PULSE email :
Join us for an exclusive livestream from 1027 Hasbro HQ with behind-the-scenes content, reveals, & select product drops.

WTF was this past weekend for?
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:41 pm

I'm one of those ridiculous saps who bought MODOK. Honestly, it's almost entirely because I want The Captain. I could take or leave the Elvis MODOK. That price really does kind of sting, and I wish it had been done differently.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm

spideyboy1111 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:05 pm


my point is Hasbro is not a small business.. their existence and pay-role does not depend on a modok elvis flinging hamburgers to keep their buisness afloat.
This is another argument I don't understand. What's the difference between a small business and a massive corporation other than scale?

If a small business who made custom bars of soap in small quantities had a specific budget for soap-making materials and employees to make the soap, then if the business owner directed them to make a crappy soap that no one bought, then it took away from the employees making a good soap that people did want.

Imagine customers coming into this small boutique soap store, seeing a whole shelf of this weird smelling soap, and asking for Raspberry Soap instead. And dozens of customers came into this small shop over the last year asking for more Raspberry soap and the owner thought "well if I make the Raspberry soap now, then customers wont have a reason to come back next year, so I'll make this Chocolate Soap instead"

And the chocolate soap looks like poo poo and no one wants to use poo poo soap. So it lingers on the shelves. And the owner usually used profits from sales of the last batch to fund supplies of the subsequent batch, but due to low sales, couldn't afford to immediately buy supplies to make Raspberry soap.

The owner wasn't selling enough chocolate soap and had to pay employees out of the raw materials fund, which delayed making raspberry soap even longer.

Now multiply this by 10,000 and turn this into a massive corporation. What changes? Well, now we have human resources employees to pay on top of the actual soap makers and soap salespeople. And we have an IT staff to pay to support the soap makers and soap salespeople. And financial reporting becomes much more complex so we have a full accounting staff to pay.

But by increasing the business by 10,000x, it still doesn't mean we have unlimited resources to make poor decisions. It usually means they have even less resources because of all of the added overhead and diseconomies of scale that come with expanding a business.

If we look at Hasbro trying to sell 7,000 units of Elvis MODOK at $74 each, that's $518k. Is that trivial to Hasbro? It's the salaries for 5 sculptors for one year. So if they sold out, they could have hired five more sculptors to develop new figures.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:45 pm

The_Kilted_Fett wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:40 pm
Who else got the PULSE email :
Join us for an exclusive livestream from 1027 Hasbro HQ with behind-the-scenes content, reveals, & select product drops.

WTF was this past weekend for?

This weekend was for the masses. Wednesday is just for Pulse Premium members.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:50 pm

minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:34 pm
Samael13 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:00 pm
minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:24 pm
I find it amusing when people say Hasbro making X did not prevent them making Y, as if Hasbro has unlimited factory capability and as if unlimited shipping containers can traverse the Pacific Ocean and if unlimited port workers can unload the unlimited containers to the unlimited supply of truck drivers waiting to pick them up. Meanwhile toilet paper is starting to become unobtainable, again.
People--like me--say it because it's absolutely true.

It's not about "unlimited factory capability." Hasbro has significantly increased their output of Marvel Legends figures over the years. This mentality of "the character I want didn't get made, but this other character did. That character stole my character's spot!" is absurd. Hasbro could have made Banshee if they wanted to. They chose not to. Their decision *to* make MODOK did not prevent them from making Banshee.
Does Hasbro hate money? Or does Hasbro think they could make more money selling Elvis MODOK than Banshee? I don't understand why Hasbro wouldn't do both, unless they could only do one. I'm using "Banshee" as a proxy for any of a myriad of top requested figures that have been desired for years. Substitute in any of another bunch of figures that would have outsold Elvis MODOK.

Why wouldn't Hasbro "want" to make Banshee now, if not for limited resources?

Do people who make the unlimited resource argument have a job? I have a job and when my boss wants me to work on X project, it means I cannot work on Y project, which gets delayed, and sometimes cancelled. The scupltor who worked on Elvis MODOK only had finite hours in the day and couldn't work on sculpting a different figure instead, perhaps Banshee.
Jesus, you are EXTREMELY obtuse.

Banshee will be in an X-Men wave sooner or later.
Meanwhile, people at Hasbro (Jesse, specifically, IIRC) really liked Nextwave and wanted to offer a fun, absolutely non-essential exclusive. Not a lot of people were excited about it? Oh well. It’s easily skipped and hurts no one.

It’s not worth this much time or consternation. Let it go.
It’s not the reason for any price hike, as it’s super limited and budgeting is most likely done as a promotional expense and is not reflective of the whole line. :rolleyes:
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:59 pm

EnigmaticClarity wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:42 pm
spideyboy1111 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:33 pm
MODOK like all exclusives, will eventually sell out.. even if it takes a year. it will sell out. and Hasbro will get their money even if they have to wait.

Yep, although it might take 2-3 years. Hasbro eventually also shared the 2019 Grandmaster/Collector con exclusive with the Disney Store, and they're still trying to clearance that out. Pulse still had it too until a few months ago.
They are not. It is still listed, yes, but it has not been in stock for over a year a year and a half or more. It's a weird glitch on their site, and it was already a year sold out before the price randomly went down. And they didn't eventually share it - I got mine from ShopDisney days before Hasbro listed it because it was offered as a D23 bonus before Hasbro put up their SDCC items.
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:01 pm

EnigmaticClarity wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:45 pm
The_Kilted_Fett wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:40 pm
Who else got the PULSE email :
Join us for an exclusive livestream from 1027 Hasbro HQ with behind-the-scenes content, reveals, & select product drops.

WTF was this past weekend for?

This weekend was for the masses. Wednesday is just for Pulse Premium members.
I laughed out loud at this response. Thank you, my friend! Maybe I should re-up by Wednesday for this exclusive news!
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:11 pm

I'll just... wait for the news to drop immediately after... for free?
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Re: 2021 Pulsecon Hopes & Predictions

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:44 pm

minitaur wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm
spideyboy1111 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:05 pm


my point is Hasbro is not a small business.. their existence and pay-role does not depend on a modok elvis flinging hamburgers to keep their buisness afloat.
This is another argument I don't understand. What's the difference between a small business and a massive corporation other than scale?

If a small business who made custom bars of soap in small quantities had a specific budget for soap-making materials and employees to make the soap, then if the business owner directed them to make a crappy soap that no one bought, then it took away from the employees making a good soap that people did want.

Imagine customers coming into this small boutique soap store, seeing a whole shelf of this weird smelling soap, and asking for Raspberry Soap instead. And dozens of customers came into this small shop over the last year asking for more Raspberry soap and the owner thought "well if I make the Raspberry soap now, then customers wont have a reason to come back next year, so I'll make this Chocolate Soap instead"

And the chocolate soap looks like poo poo and no one wants to use poo poo soap. So it lingers on the shelves. And the owner usually used profits from sales of the last batch to fund supplies of the subsequent batch, but due to low sales, couldn't afford to immediately buy supplies to make Raspberry soap.

The owner wasn't selling enough chocolate soap and had to pay employees out of the raw materials fund, which delayed making raspberry soap even longer.

Now multiply this by 10,000 and turn this into a massive corporation. What changes? Well, now we have human resources employees to pay on top of the actual soap makers and soap salespeople. And we have an IT staff to pay to support the soap makers and soap salespeople. And financial reporting becomes much more complex so we have a full accounting staff to pay.

But by increasing the business by 10,000x, it still doesn't mean we have unlimited resources to make poor decisions. It usually means they have even less resources because of all of the added overhead and diseconomies of scale that come with expanding a business.

If we look at Hasbro trying to sell 7,000 units of Elvis MODOK at $74 each, that's $518k. Is that trivial to Hasbro? It's the salaries for 5 sculptors for one year. So if they sold out, they could have hired five more sculptors to develop new figures.
pretty simple... small businesses produce way less... and tend to have less back up strategies than a big business...

one costly misfire can destroy a small business instantly where a larger business can usually recover pretty quickly.

im not really sure why this is hard to wrap your head around? it's also why small businesses need extra protection during things like recessions and well like we saw with covid this past year.

and unlike a big business it's less easy to sacrifice employees or things in general to stay a float...

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