An Open, Civil Discussion on eBay Marketing

Got a Custom, Model, Garage Kit or OOAKS on eBay? Pimp it here! Got some ideas to help better you Modeller's eBay sale? Post it here. For non-Custom eBay listings, use the FWOOSH Deals forum.
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Actorjez
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:40 am

FAIR WARNING:
I will not be editing out the inappropriate stuff up to this point, even though I was asked to. But from this point on I'll delete any flaming, from anybody, regardless of who started it.
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Kirk
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:01 am

ive read all the post and it seems that everyone agrees that ebay should be seperate from fwoosh - except for the pimpin thread and i agree - it was thought up by the staff to help all of us sell our customs.


ps im going to bed so no more snipeing and ill catch up with this discussion tomorrow - remember extended curtisy is now needed not bashing - and if you can quote me in this thread attacking someone personally please post it - ive only stated sales tactics not hatred .

kirk
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Kirk
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:20 am

i can't believe how long it takes me to respond, there have been 5 or 6 more post including that final warning from ActorJez before i could peck out my message and hit the submit button.

after reading jin's last post i think his revision is very well put and something we could all follow. i appreciate you taking all of our comments into consideration and believe you will still get a boat load for your customs, as i have said before you do have good customs and you are innovative, just let us tell you that. it's not that it is not true, it just shows your humility towards other customizers.


NOW I'm going to bed.
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pablolobo
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:37 am

Jin Saotome wrote:You bring up a mighty fine point. Who am I hurting here, as Kirk keeps stating? If it's hurting other Fwooshers that are trying to sell the same character on Ebay as me, it's about the money. Not friendship, helping out, or passing knowledge. It would hurt their auctions, and their pocketbook.
And that is where is gets tricky, no?

Fwoosh is a community, in being a community people are building relationships and friendships.

eBay is not a community per se but a dog eat dog world. Capitalism at it's best or worst.

The two conflict with one another and the resulted poo occurs. eBay is about going to the mattresses, not about making a bud. The fwoosh is about making a bud, going to the mattresses is frowned upon, at least that is the perception.

One of the reasons that we reached out to the eBay customizers is that I and the staff felt they were too big to ignore. There is some amazing work being done and we thought they could provide new and old customizers and additional resource.

Previously with the Custom Coalition many eBayer's we shunned, a lot of it had to do with the lack of crediting other customizers who made the custom in the first place.

But the Fwoosh took a modern stance and said there are too many customizers now. Too much fodder and too much discussion. Who is to say that the eBayer didn't have the idea first but was last in getting his work out?

There was also the fact that more and more customizers were hitting eBay to make a lot of bucks and others (like me) to unload and maybe make little bucks.

So we took the controversial decision to embrace eBayers. To bridge the gap and try and bring this talent into a community where they could learn and maybe teach a little. Not just about customs but how to sell on eBay.

So far we've been successful.

But we get hung up on Jin. Jin, Jin, Jin.

And this where I get a little more back to the topic.

I think it's funny more and more. Jin is a talented fellow, his customs are solid and he is a good eBayer. But his showmanship raises fwoosher's hackles. 9 times out of 10. Hell when he first started here I was close to banning him for being such an ass. It took me a while to see the clouds through the smoke.

See it's his schtick. It's his angle. It's how he makes his money. He might have a friend or two here, but at the end of the day this is his engine for sales. Every flame war feeds another ebay auction. And he loves it. It makes another sale/higher bid on eBay.

He is good at selling and promoting himself. Perhaps one of the best. But it's not making him a whole of friends here. But Jin doesn't care. In fact if we were to ban him, it would just show up in an eBay auction description, in his signature at another board, a headline on his website. All of it leading to more sales.

Jin isn't so much about the community. Fwoosh is just a means at getting another sale. Sure he might make a friend or two, but at the end of the day it's about the money he can make.

Now before everyone says but Jin help's out and you are being overly critical. Actually I am not. Even his helping out is a sales tool. The more emails he can answer the more people that he reaches, touches, helps, communicates with, is another sale.

Look people this guy is doing a great a job. What's funny to me is that day in and day out he get's torn apart and it's just another dollar in his pocket.

Difficult for some to wrap their heads around. And somewhat of a conflict. No? Now this works for Jin. Really well. Does it mean everyone should employ this tactic? No, at least not here. I think one Jin on the fwoosh is more than we can handle.

But you can learn a lot from Jin's secondary marketing practice. In fact I will be so bold as to say it might be more a primary parctice, I think it might be raking in more sales these days than his eBay descriptions.

Now this was a lot of words for me to type, so I hope I made sense. I am not trying villify Jin, or shoot him down. I am just trying to point out and analyse one of Fwoosh's more controversial customizers and successful eBayers. Hopefully I have done that.

pabs (taking a cue from the business anal-izers on the Marvel Board)
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Jin Saotome
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:29 am

Pabs, that was a really great post... I applaud you.

It kinda does paint me as a villan tho, inadvertantly at best. My guides, tips, and tutorials really do help out everyone who reads them. They were NEVER posted as a money maker tho. If anything, every tip/guide/etc I post makes me feel more proud about my self, and get a bigger ego which is one of my downfalls. The after effect is yes, they get my name spread around, and people go to my site. All of that leads to more people knowing who I am.

I'm sad you think I'm only here at the Fwoosh to promote myself. Unfortunatly at this point, that happens no matter where I go. Any time I post here, on TNI, the Spawn boards, Action-Figure.com, or anywhere, people see my little banner and some click on my site. But that's true of ANYONE who has their banner in their sig, or posts with links that lead back to their site. Don't just single out me.

I enjoy coming to the Fwoosh to read up on the latest news about what ToyBiz is making, what statues are coming out, or when the hell Blackheart's figure is being made. At one point I decided to give back to this community, posting an 'Ask Jin' column like I did on TNI and help other customizers. That didn't go over so well here, but no biggie. I post guides here and chime in with helpful tips whenever I can. I've made great friends, and give them the best advice I can.

Can you see the big 'circle' though? I post, it helps others. Others view my posts and I'm better known. Being well known helps me, and my auctions. One big, happy circle. Symbiotic if you will, just like Venom! You cannot honestly tell me I'm wrong in any way to do that. If I run out of money, and I have to shut down my site and internet access, all that help disappears.

The <i>community</i> here, I like that term Pabs. I'll help anyone I can in the Fwoosh community. I'll mail you free fodder parts, host images/auctions for you, give you tips and advice, post new figures/variations I find in stores, and contribute just as much as the next guy. I'll NEVER stop doing that. No matter how many people get on my case about my schtick. So none of you ever need worry that I'm only here to promote myself and that I'll leave you hanging.

Pabs is right. The more people I help, the more my name gets around. The more popularity gets pushed my way. It just works that way. It works with anyone here, not just me.

Now I pose a question to you Pabs, and everyone out there who wants to answer it.

What more can I do?

What other payment do you want from me for the ongoing attention/popularity I get here? Do you realize I'm going to make you all deadpool beltbuckles at cost? I'll make my profit on EBay with them, not here. If casting goes well and I perfect the method, I can make custom bases, scenery, all sorts of things for the community here.

And yes, every person who shows off their beltbuckle will probably mention Jin Saotome made it for them. Boom, more people know who I am, more hits, the circle continues. I help you, you help me. I could of sworn that's how these things worked.
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Industrial
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:09 am

dibs on first belt buckle!



:lol:



- Industrial ( wonders if his post is gonna get deleted....)
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pablolobo
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:16 am

I'll have to reply in depth later.

Just one thing, so you know Jin, the topic is about eBay practices and, in that, self promotion. Right now your methodology is the hot topic so I take you as the first "victim".

But I think we can analyze Cal, Jez, etc as well with the same thoughtfulness. Who knows we might discover that all eBay customizers are all evil and a bane to custom communities.

Jin, make no doubt your contribution to the custom community is huge, your tutorials are valuable and it is great you participate. I'm not slamming that.

As I said I'll reply later.

pabs (glad to see this topic is trucking)
KraftyWerks
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:33 pm

I sit at a desk all day long dealing with the worst of the cutthroats and backstabbers; I'm a commercial banker (that specializes in attorneys, doctors and CPAs, the WORST clients) in a town that has a booming, competetive market. Money brings out the worst in people that's for sure. I think I also know a wolf in sheep's clothing when I see one.

I like coming here and NOT having to be a cutthroat or such to be successful in what I do: make good customs and enjoy myself. I agree that Fwoosh and ebay are like oil and water. So that being said, I'm done with this topic because it's really taken alot of the fun out of the whole shebang. I'm not here to shamelessly self-promote, be popular, or make it big. I came here to hang out with dorks like me and talk about figures and comics..to RELAX.
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ElWampa
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:40 pm

Jin Saotome wrote:
Ah, this one! Unless you host your own pictures and have them appear, first, (that takes bandwith) .

Not really, it only costs us an extra .47 cents, (I just got last months invoice) .
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Actorjez
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:57 pm

Here's a thought that's been consistently popping up in the thread:
Jin Saotome wrote: EBay is a harsh, unforgiving, brawl-pit, capitilistic, and many times underhanded resource on the net.
Pablolobo wrote:Fwoosh is a community, in being a community people are building relationships and friendships. eBay is not a community per se but a dog eat dog world. Capitalism at it's best or worst.
Crainius wrote:I agree that Fwoosh and ebay are like oil and water.
mzeid wrote:but once it's out there, face it man, you're out there competing with other customizers. someone mentioned separating what goes on in ebay from fwoosh. that is a great suggestion.

...I'm not sure that I agree with that.

Or, more accurately, I'm not sure it's that black and white. Obviously, the two seem diametrically opposed in the beginning stages; as Pabs put it so bluntly, eBay's about going to the mattress.

But sell customs on eBay long enough, and you quickly learn that the dog-eat-dog marketing strategy isn't suited for it. Why? For the same reasons Samuron outlined in his post: The eBay Custom Market is relatively small, insular, highly specialized...and here's the big kicker: Unlike what mzeid theorizes, there is rarely any direct competition between customizers. The simple fact is, unless two customs of the same character are up at the same time, they don't compete directly. My Sgt Fury is not competing with Crainius' Wonder Man.

What Cal called simple marketing, (companies bashing each other in commercials), is strategy designed for mass-produced, large-market companies like Walmart and Target. They know you're going to buy a green shirt, so they want you to buy their green shirt. But they're not saying “don't buy Eminem's CD at Target, buy Alanis Morrisette's at Walmartâ€
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Actorjez
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:38 pm

And yeah, I eat fries with pizza.
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Joel
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:44 pm

Ok, question that I really need answered:

On the pizza or as a side?
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Actorjez
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:45 pm

Both.

I'm a Big Man.
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Xenos
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:04 pm

I think it's kind of funny that people that make customs of Marvel characters would be put off by showy advertising...I mean, c'mon...Marvel was built by Stan Lee saying whatever it took to get someone to buy his product. Do "The World's Greatest Comics Magazine" or "The Marvel Age of Comics" sound famillier? How about how every Stan's Soapbox would poke fun of "The DIstingushed Competition"?
But I don't sell on ebay, or customize, so I guess I can't really speak for anyone:wink:
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Kirk
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Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:12 pm

jez you need to turn this (thread) into a workshop - im liking were this is going - i guess you are the mac daddy- :wink:

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