Masters Of The Universe Origins

[PantherCult]

Bah... you made me hopeful so I checked Mattel Creations for the order status of my Frogs and sadly it says "unfulfilled" - no shipping date, no nothing.

[KnightDamien]

Bah... you made me hopeful so I checked Mattel Creations for the order status of my Frogs and sadly it says "unfulfilled" - no shipping date, no nothing.

I made a few calls and told them not to send yours out yet. Do your chores, THEN you can have toys.

Netflix She-Ra killed the line of amazing 1/6 She-Ra dolls from Mattel and I'll never be OK!

...What?

Just because you want POP characters doesn't mean it would sell better than Snake Men.

Yyyyup.

Shadow Weaver would probably sell, but Perfuma? Flutterina? SweetBee? Not so much. most of the POP characters are not particularly popular. Not saying there aren't some that would sell, because there are, but POP stuff really bogged down MOTUC and most of that stuff is still lingering on the secondary market. I can see why Mattel might have cold feet on doing more of that.

Also yyyup.
I'm a big fan of the POP inclusion in MOTU toys. I really am. But they were almost universally the least popular element of MOTUC despite very vocal people that wanted them included (which they absolutely -should- be). After the main ones like Bow and She-Ra, it's just diminishing returns. And if the MOTUC crowd, ostensibly ONLY targeted at adult collectors while MOTUO is for everyone, struggles to get people interested in POP, MOTUO very well could also struggle.
I still think they should be included. But I also don't think it's this weird 'either/or' thing where Mattel can't make ANY POP figures because they're making Snake Men.

I personally would have preferred a shadow weaver figure!

I'd personally prefer a lot of things over Hordak. Doesn't mean Hordak won't sell or that my specific choice would sell better than Hordak. And again, the Snake Men are a very popular faction for MOTU, so it's not like it's something that's demonstrably less popular than POP. In fact, it's probably the opposite.

And... again... toy companies do not make tiered 'popularity' lists and just make figures in descending order from most popular to least popular, so I don't even know what your point is.

DJC Collectibles (Ottawa) has pretty much everything general release up for preorder. Nothing is sold out as of right now. Saves you on exchange and shipping. Downside is that you have to pay upfront for the preorder.

I might go that route, especially if they have really good shipping costs. BBTS has gotten a bit ridiculous. Thanks!

Now that could be a one off for action figures, but MOTU could probably benefit from that type of thinking. Also they are into year 4 now(?) so it isn't like they haven't had a good run, AND, they aren't disappearing. Especially after that massive reveal. So while I don't think we will see too much more from the Origins side of things for much longer, I don't imagine MOTU in general will be gone from retail, especially with more media to come.

Definitely.
And also.. I think it can be a problem living in a post-Marvel Legends world where a particular group of collectors seem to think any line that doesn't have a 20-year road map of releases and constant refresh of every major character while ALSO doing all the fan favorites and obscure characters is somehow a failure. Or, on the other hand, they just actively expect that every line will last for at least five years and are shocked when it's suggested that it may not.
MOST toylines, historically, do not last as long as many of the collector lines currently out already have. We gotta appreciate that a bit more, I think.

[Super Camel]

Bah... you made me hopeful so I checked Mattel Creations for the order status of my Frogs and sadly it says "unfulfilled" - no shipping date, no nothing.

Hopefully it updates to fulfilled tomorrow. But you might just end up getting it in the mail before they ever mark it fulfilled. I've had that happen before.


How many Frogs did you order PantherCult?

[DisneyBoy]

I can't blame anyone for being confused about what killed various He-Man toylines. It's not like Mattel is ever forthcoming about information. Heck, for years people whined "She-Ra killed He-Man!" when the POP brand actually came out as MOTU was winding down already, and She-Ra brought back He-Man characters on her show. If anything she extended his brand.

...which is why I'm so dang frustrated with the refusal to put any POP characters in Origins still. No Scorpia? No Octavia? They're still "too girly" for this MOTU line, which now includes Sun-Man and all his friends? Seriously??

Mattel why are you like this?

That’s what I was implying. Wouldn’t POP sell better than the snake men? I personally would have preferred a shadow weaver figure!

I doubt POP would sell better than the random snake men.

Shadow Weaver would probably sell, but Perfuma? Flutterina? SweetBee? Not so much. most of the POP characters are not particularly popular. Not saying there aren't some that would sell, because there are, but POP stuff really bogged down MOTUC and most of that stuff is still lingering on the secondary market. I can see why Mattel might have cold feet on doing more of that.

I'm really going to have to disagree here.

Obviously, I'm not saying a character named "Perfuma" is going to be a #1 seller in what's marketed as a "boys line". I have zero expectations of her getting made.

However, I think it is 100% reasonable (and wise!) to bring the following She-Ra characters into the Origins line.

-Adora (obviously, She-Ra's alter ego and Adam's sister, an A-lister)
-Catra (famous from the original line, and the Netflix show, with a great look)
-Frosta (one of the best/most popular designs of the Rebels)
-Bow (a well-liked male Rebel, the main male character, also seen in the Netflix show)
-Glimmer (again, known from the original and Netflix show and a very simple figure)
-Octavia (a female monster character never before made in this scale, with huge playability)
-Scorpia (same as above ^^^)

That's SEVEN characters who could be made as toys. That's it. That's all I'm suggesting.

At this point, we've seen more than seven Sun-Men guys right? And now that we're through with the Snake Men and onto "the randoms" - characters that even hardcore fans struggle to identify - this line is probably about to end without even considering these seven characters because *GASP* they're from a "girly show".

It's ridiculous. We all know, and have known for decades, that He-Man was short on female characters, and that Teela, Evil-Lyn and Sorceress were hugely popular amongst fans. But rather than put one female in each wave, or in every second wave, they turn a blind eye to these She-Ra characters. It's sad.

Really, I'm not trying to speak about my own personal wish-list here - I'm just saying Classics did this better. The brands are intertwined. Mattel owns the rights to these characters. Am I glad some of them are showing up in Mastersverse? Sure, yes, totally. But can't we put 7 figures into Origins and diversify the line just a little?

I honestly don't think those aforementioned characters will repulse/overwhelm boys interested in the line OR lifelong fans (and frankly, I'm betting it's hardcore fans supporting this line more than kids).

EDIT: As to your point, Damien, about the POP figures being the "least popular part of the MOTUC line", that's....really just speculation on your part. I get that Perfuma doesn't sell for 100+ dollars now on the aftermarket, no argument there, but there are plenty of very random He-Man characters that don't have much aftermarket value as well, and New Adventures and 200X characters...and even vintage MOTU characters that don't! There are a whole lot of characters from Classics that didn't make a big splash, across the various factions.

Also, it's not just about young boys buying into Origins. What about young girls? Can't they get into the line? Or is Mattel determined to keep them out of it? What about grown women who love She-Ra or would happily bring a mix of male and female figures into their home for kids to play with?

How many of us had both MOTU and POP figures in our collections precisely because it created more of a balance and allowed for more interesting play scenarios?

It's so, so sad to me that this weird "girls not allowed!" attitude from the 80s continues to dictate things to this day. I'm glad that you see the value in these characters, I am, but the sweeping generalizations about how they're "not popular enough" really make me roll my eyes because...where's the proof to back that up? There's a whole new generation of She-Ra fans who love the Netflix show who can't find figures from that series (because they were hard to find and inconsistently made, etc) who would probably scoop up some She-Ra Origins figures.

But there aren't any.

[Falling Downer]

It's been a pretty amazing few days for this line. I think I pre-ordered almost everything, and some of the things I initially passed on (like the Snake Men 4-pack and Snake Teela), I could see caving on eventually.

And on top of all that, I woke up this morning to a shipping notice for Frog Monger!!!

Regarding POP, I never expected this line to go as deep into it as Classics did (hell, I was just hoping at the start to get the original MOTU 8 back characters, Battle Cat and Castle Greyskull), but after She-Ra hit, I was really hoping for at least Catra, Shadow Weaver, Glimmer and Bow. I think all of those characters would sell fine. I'm still hoping there's a chance for a few of them. I'd also be down for a handful of New Adventures characters, too.

Outside of the remaining vintage characters, I really want He-Ro. I'm honestly shocked that he didn't rate a slot in the line this year as the OG enemy of the Snake Men.

[DisneyBoy]

I'd also enjoy Weaver in Origins, but since she was at least made by Super7 (and pretty perfectly I might add!) I omitted her from my list.

[KnightDamien]

Outside of the remaining vintage characters, I really want He-Ro. I'm honestly shocked that he didn't rate a slot in the line this year as the OG enemy of the Snake Men.

It's possible they're trying to avoid 'crossing the streams' too much, and thereby cannibalize their own sales. Isn't He-Ro either currently out or about to be out in Masterverse? Masterverse Trap-Jaw came out after Origins Trap-Jaw was sold out. Origins hasn't gotten a (retail) NA He-Man yet, while he's currently out in Masterverse. Masterverse Whiplash just got announced and I think the Origins Whiplash wave (not that I ever saw it) is just recently drying up. She-Ra was in an early Origins wave and then came out in Masterverse like a year and a bit later. Clawful was just shown for Masterverse - his wave of Origins is just starting to dry up now. Origins is doing a bunch of Snake Men and there's none currently in Masterverse at all, as far as I can recall. Buzz-Off was just shown for Masterverse -- again, his Origins wave is mostly selling through now with just some stragglers left.

I suppose I could be cherry-picking examples (I'm not going to mentally run through every release from both lines, after all). But given the relatively small roster MOTU actually has to work with, it very much seems to me like there's intent here not to release the same characters in both lines simultaneously. So maybe He-Ro will be announced for Origins soon. After all, the stuff we're seeing is supposedly only up through Fall, right? We don't even know what's coming out for Winter yet.

Obviously, I'm not saying a character named "Perfuma" is going to be a #1 seller in what's marketed as a "boys line". I have zero expectations of her getting made.

She should get made, though. Great design. And one of my daughter's favorites when I had the Classics one.

However, I think it is 100% reasonable (and wise!) to bring the following She-Ra characters into the Origins line.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring ALL POP characters into Origins.
But I don't think anyone here has claimed it isn't. Just refuting the idea that they're naturally going to be even more popular than the current Snake Men figures and therefore it's somehow crazy or unwise of Mattel to be doing Snake Men right now, or whatever the argument is.

this line is probably about to end without even considering these seven characters because *GASP* they're from a "girly show".

Quite possibly. But it's important to keep in mind that, as far as I can tell, no one here has suggested that they like or agree with that decision. I don't really think anything is being said about POP on its own, but just in relation to the Snake Men or other aspects of MOTU. It's not like anyone is saying 'POP sucks and doesn't sell.'
But it's absolutely worth keeping in mind that every figure so far besides She-Ra has either been from MOTU-proper, or is based on something from MOTU-proper (like Frog guy and extra Snake Men, and indeed, all of the POP villains like Leech and Hordak). Mattel has very clearly avoided doing anything (besides She-Ra) directly from POP. Is that because it's from a 'girly show?' Very likely. Is that a good thing or even defensible? Nope. Not in my opinion.

Is Mattel still probably run by the same idiots that have been running the company for the last 20 years and are carrying forward the 100-year-old (or more) mentality of stark separation between boy and girl toys? Again.. yeah, probably. And that's absolutely a bad thing and I don't think, unless I missed something, anyone is disputing that.

EDIT: As to your point, Damien, about the POP figures being the "least popular part of the MOTUC line", that's....really just speculation on your part. I get that Perfuma doesn't sell for 100+ dollars now on the aftermarket, no argument there, but there are plenty of very random He-Man characters that don't have much aftermarket value as well, and New Adventures and 200X characters...and even vintage MOTU characters that don't! There are a whole lot of characters from Classics that didn't make a big splash, across the various factions.

Sure, it is my speculation based on observation. I was here, and on the Org, following Classics since that first 4H not-a-prototype popped up out of nowhere. I bought the SDCC King Grayskull, subbed to the line once that was available, and at one point had like 90% or more of the entirety of Classics. It's not like this is all post-Classics guesswork. I was there, Gandalf.
At the time of their release, the POP characters were always the easiest to get with the only exceptions being the ones from MOTU (again, the villains) and the first few (She-Ra, Adora, Bow) as well as a couple of fan favorites, one or two of which were a subscription bonus figure so it hardly counts. The majority of the POP characters could be had for retail -or less- at the time of their release as subscribers tried to offload them. And those same figures seem to have universally never risen in value at the rate that other Classics figures did. Even kind of by your own argument - many of the POP figures carried the same overall secondary market value as the least-popular/least valuable figures from all the rest of MOTU.

It's not that EVERY Classics figure besides POP was immediately doubling in value. It's that POP figures -regularly didn't-. Plus there was just general critical reception which always seemed a bit more lukewarm for POP figures except a few. Bow got crazy high marks from collectors. But so did some of the New Adventures figures - and that is probably the most reviled part of the entire MOTU mythos.

I'm not saying everyone hates POP. Or even that it isn't popular. But it certainly appears to be less popular (-generally-) than basically everything else in MOTUC except like.. Mighty Spector. Even Fearless Photog, a figure that is only famous for never actually existing before, regularly commanded higher secondary market prices at time of release and after, than 85% of POP figures.


I think it's tempting to view this as hating on POP or some kind of personal agenda to argue against their inclusion. It's 100% not that. I am on record in multiple threads of desperately wanting figures from the Netflix She-Ra cartoon. That cartoon might be one of my favorite MOTU-related things ever. I think I enjoy it more than Filmation He-Man, and I definitely like it more than 200x He-Man. And the likelihood is that those characters are never going to get action figures in any line I collect for nebulous and stupid reasons. It upsets me. But I'm also trying to be realistic when someone pops in (get it?) and says that POP characters would be more popular than Snake Men (which, again, is a well-beloved part of MOTU and always has been).

[PantherCult]

I do think it's telling that there has been (marginally) more support for POP in the Masterverse line - the one Mattel feels is more targeted at adult collectors - than in the Origins line. It's not a massive amount clearly, but Masterverse has at least included She-Ra, Frosta, and Shadow Weaver to date, so at least they are doing something.

I am also wondering if a thing hindering more POP in Origins is that Origins styles itself as modern updates of the vintage line. The vintage POP females had rooted "doll hair" and so there's a decision to be made... do they make "retro style" princesses the way they did MOTU ladies - plastic hair - or try to mimic the vintage line with rooted hair? If they go plastic - is there a segment of the fanbase upset that they ditched a defining feature of the old toys? While it may seem minor, I think it may be something they probably have to consider as well.


edit - and on a separate note, just got the e-mail that my Frog Mongers have shipped. I am excite!

[S.W.O.R.D. Agent]

I have no relationship / affinity to the old PoP line, but Origins style figures with plastic hair would be my preference. The rooted hair is just a messy gimick imo.

Anyone know how sales of Origins compare to Masterverse? In spite of Masterverse existing, I was drawn to Origins due to the retro body update. I wonder how much this split collectors. I've basically got no interest in Masterverse.

[Ikariniku]

Mattel has shown itself to be unafraid to ditch defining features. Thunder Punch He-Man doesn;t use caps, Battle Armor He-Man doesn't use a rotating barrel to change the state of the chest piece, Mekanek has more of a Mek-can't-nek.

Mattel included She-Ra in origins without doll hair. Super 7 even did a faux-vintage She-Ra in the vintage MotU figure style.

Out of all the PoP/Great Rebellion MotUC figures released, I think none had doll hair.

Likely, the plan is to keep Origins focused on the vintage MotU line (including the much-maligned Snake Men, who, incidentally, had fewer figures than PoP/Great Rebellion in MotUC), with a few He-Man focused cameo figures and the Rulers of the Sun added in.

[PantherCult]

Anyone know how sales of Origins compare to Masterverse? In spite of Masterverse existing, I was drawn to Origins due to the retro body update. I wonder how much this split collectors. I've basically got no interest in Masterverse.

I have no data on how sales for the two lines compare... but I am the opposite type of collector from you. The only Origins figures I buy are those that I couldn't get in previous iterations of MOTU - so all the Rulers of the Sun figures, Kol-Dar, Frog Monger, the Generic Snake 3-pack. Basically, if I've already got the figure in Classics or Masterverse I'm not buying the Origins version.

[mattmurdog]

Anyone know how sales of Origins compare to Masterverse? In spite of Masterverse existing, I was drawn to Origins due to the retro body update. I wonder how much this split collectors. I've basically got no interest in Masterverse.

I have no data on how sales for the two lines compare... but I am the opposite type of collector from you. The only Origins figures I buy are those that I couldn't get in previous iterations of MOTU - so all the Rulers of the Sun figures, Kol-Dar, Frog Monger, the Generic Snake 3-pack. Basically, if I've already got the figure in Classics or Masterverse I'm not buying the Origins version.

Based on what I see in stores, I almost think Origins sell better than Masterverse. I'm in the camp of Origins and I have little interest in Masterverse, especially given their non-uniformity in release.

[PantherCult]

Based on what I see in stores, I almost think Origins sell better than Masterverse.

Unfortunately I think this a very unreliable method of analysis to answer this question. I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong - I'm just saying to find it meaningful you'd need to know a lot of variables like how much was ordered and how regularly stock is refreshed among other things. Without a number of reliable data points its all just guessing.

[KnightDamien]

Unfortunately I think this a very unreliable method of analysis to answer this question. I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong - I'm just saying to find it meaningful you'd need to know a lot of variables like how much was ordered and how regularly stock is refreshed among other things. Without a number of reliable data points its all just guessing.

Yeah. Unfortunately, no matter how much you say this, there's gonna be people that think 'nah, what I have personally witnessed is definitely scalable and accurate for the entire planet.'

But yes.. impossible to know which line is selling better. In my area, both lines seem to do really well for the regular items, and kind of poorly for deluxe/higher price items. Probably because in Canadian dollars those deluxe price points get !@#$ RIDICULOUS. I mean, TRU is selling 'verse King Grayskull for SIXTY dollars, plus tax. But the same TRUs have basically no regular figures left at all - only deluxe/oversized figures.

And it's kind of the same for Origins I've seen at Walmart, where basic figures, even after pegwarming, eventually seem to sell through fairly well, but those Clamp Champs and Ram Mans hung around for what felt like a thousand years and only went away when put on clearance.

Anyone know how sales of Origins compare to Masterverse?

No. Literally no one does except Mattel employees (and individual retailers could take a really educated guess). Anyone else saying they do know is lying to you.

I wonder how much this split collectors. I've basically got no interest in Masterverse.

Judging by various toy groups alone - it does seem like there's plenty of people buying both lines to some extent, and from what I can tell it sounds like most people not buying one or the other line wouldn't have even if it were the only line. Now, whether or not that would remain true if that line were -actually- the only line? Impossible to say.
Still, Mattel must be fairly confident that they're not cannibalizing their own sales too much or they wouldn't be running three or four .. or five.. concurrent MOTU lines.

Like I mentioned earlier, though, that might have something to do with them not seeming to want to release the same figure in multiple lines all at once.

I do think it's telling that there has been (marginally) more support for POP in the Masterverse line - the one Mattel feels is more targeted at adult collectors - than in the Origins line. It's not a massive amount clearly, but Masterverse has at least included She-Ra, Frosta, and Shadow Weaver to date, so at least they are doing something.

I am also wondering if a thing hindering more POP in Origins is that Origins styles itself as modern updates of the vintage line. The vintage POP females had rooted "doll hair" and so there's a decision to be made... do they make "retro style" princesses the way they did MOTU ladies - plastic hair - or try to mimic the vintage line with rooted hair? If they go plastic - is there a segment of the fanbase upset that they ditched a defining feature of the old toys? While it may seem minor, I think it may be something they probably have to consider as well.

It's definitely not the rooted hair thing, since they already made She-Ra in Origins. I think you're onto something with Masterverse getting a little more POP support. Origins is targeted heavily at two things; kids and direct nostalgia. Not Masterverse-style nostalgia of 'I remember these characters,' but distinct, tactile nostalgia of 'I remember how these looked and felt.' So maybe Mattel doesn't feel like that nostalgic feeling will gel as well with POP figures that most MOTU fans were never buying to begin with. I would hazard to say the majority of people buying Origins out of pure nostalgia did not actually own POP figures. Not saying those people WOULDN'T buy POP figures. But it's certainly possible that Mattel sees it that way.

[DisneyBoy]

Origins is targeted heavily at two things; kids and direct nostalgia. Not Masterverse-style nostalgia of 'I remember these characters,' but distinct, tactile nostalgia of 'I remember how these looked and felt.' So maybe Mattel doesn't feel like that nostalgic feeling will gel as well with POP figures that most MOTU fans were never buying to begin with. I would hazard to say the majority of people buying Origins out of pure nostalgia did not actually own POP figures. Not saying those people WOULDN'T buy POP figures. But it's certainly possible that Mattel sees it that way.

I'm not sure I give Mattel that much credit. I really do get the sense this boils down to "She-Ra = girly! Boo! No girly in man toy line!" *thumps chest*

I agree that Masterverse, as a spiritual successor to Classics, has a "there's room for everybody!" mentality, but choosing to leave She-Ra characters out of Origins is such a wasted opportunity. The Masters of the WWE Universe line had several female figures throughout, and that was cool, right? Well received? Didn't tank the line? Then why is there a different view for Origins?

It's interesting that you suggested they're taking a tactile sense-memory approach to the line-up, but I really doubt that's the case. Maybe I'm wrong, but if they can do Snake Teela...why not Scorpia or Octavia? I think there's a boundary there for them. She-Ra is the only permissible token inclusion as far as they see it.

Origins style figures with plastic hair would be my preference. The rooted hair is just a messy gimmick imo.

I agree that sculpted hair is the way to go. Just hopefully not hair (or faces!) as poorly sculpted as the Origins She-Ra. She looked bad from the neck up, sorry to say. Lyn fared better.

She should get made, though. Great design. And one of my daughter's favorites when I had the Classics one.

Aww that's nice to hear! I like Filmation Perfuma, but I recognize with the "action" aesthetic of Origins, a dainty blonde in ballet slippers dressed as a flower would stick out. I'd rather see Huntara in Origins, honestly. Hey! Huntara! Okay. So I was wrong. I want 8 She-Ra figures added to Origins.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to bring ALL POP characters into Origins.
But I don't think anyone here has claimed it isn't. Just refuting the idea that they're naturally going to be even more popular than the current Snake Men figures and therefore it's somehow crazy or unwise of Mattel to be doing Snake Men right now, or whatever the argument is.

I need to be clear then - that is definitely not my argument. I'm not saying the Snake Men don't sell or aren't popular. I'm just saying that by the time the line has gotten to finishing up the Snake Men without touching any POP characters, it's clear they have no intention to include them, and are skipping out on a bunch of recognizable popular characters. POP figures could have been mixed in along the way.

I do, however, believe POP characters are definitely more popular than the Sun-Man characters - hardly a bold statement, and more of an obvious one.

It's tough seeing She-Ra fans waiting their turn, so to speak, only for no names like the Sun-Man guys to get called next...and now we have concept characters getting to go first as well! They always tell us "wait and be patient!" etc, but the end result is often "oops, the line is cancelled, tough luck!" when it comes to She-Ra.

In hindsight, we were pretty lucky so many She-Ra characters got made in Classics between Mattel and Super7.

With Origins, it doesn't even look like we're going to get a Swift Wind, for pity's sake.