The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

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Zephyr Roc
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The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:47 am

What are we playing?
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Zephyr Roc
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sorry for the double post

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:50 am

Also, the current roster for the fwooshteam is:

Zephyr Roc
Maximoff
Sneaking Box
Enforcer
Shatterstar4ml

Tryouts for new members will be post pandemic
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Re: sorry for the double post

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:47 am

Zephyr Roc wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:50 am
sorry for the double post
lol, it was supposed to be a comment, dlt plz.
(Very old fwoosh reference)
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:34 am

I assumed you were dead zeph.

Sneaks and shatterstar are, basically. Evans floating around here still and enforcer is mainly just keeping up his photography.

I don't think I see Evan online much anymore but it's usually in the mcc. Sneaks has been popping up in my friends achievements ranking but I think he's been on pc playing who knows what.

Forget the past, kill it if you have to.
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The Devil is in the detail

Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:51 am

can someone send me an xbox series whatever? I just had a kid and I don't want to spend extra money. but i do want to play Halo with my boys.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:53 am

Magnuz wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:34 am
I assumed you were dead zeph.

Sneaks and shatterstar are, basically. Evans floating around here still and enforcer is mainly just keeping up his photography.

I don't think I see Evan online much anymore but it's usually in the mcc. Sneaks has been popping up in my friends achievements ranking but I think he's been on pc playing who knows what.

Forget the past, kill it if you have to.
What!? No one is dead, Magz. In fact, The Fwooshteam is very much still in communication with each other. Just not here.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:38 pm

Well you guys always hung out more outside of halo and here than me, so I figure you kept your social connections intact.

In terms of actually still gaming though Evan has been rhe only one who seems to keep playing consistently.

I did start playing infinite multi-player. It's kinda fun but it's a modern microtransaction cash grab in terms of unlocks and cosmetics which is disappointing.

Problem is I finally got a ps5 and I bought miles morales so I'm more interested in playing that than grinding 50xp matches to unlock gear I can't use cause I don't feel like paying for a season pass in infinite.....
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:43 pm

I mean, the game is free to play. They have to make money somehow.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:40 pm

It's a business model i'm not fond of, especially in a case like this with a game like Halo.

Halo is very important to multiplayer games, but at its core it is also very much a story driven campaign game as well. The fact is they released "access" to the multiplayer for free but its still part of the overall game package that includes the campaign. This isn't Halo - Fortnite where it was released as a purely online only game they are selling this game even with it on gamepass day 1 it will be sold as a retail game.

While i understand the use of microtransactions to fund development and support of the online aspects of a game, this one is too heavily weighted in favor of just spending money instead of ever playing the game. Every pay for extras type game has a free aspect, it may take grinding or more work to get items but you can do it without paying, its a choice for you to make. Pay to get things now or earn them at a slower pace yourself.

This game flat out locks things out that you earn, it gives you a path of items you will get for leveling up then has multiple that are locked if you don't pay for the season pass. Whats the point of having the free players unlock them at all? Its just to push you to pay for it. Basically no cosmetics or customizable components are available without paying for the pass.

Then even if you do pay for it, the experience progression system is so weak that it further promotes paying. The premium season pass comes with 25 free levels to your character, i mean jesus why even play the game just keep buying exp/cosmetics to get everything.

I just miss the days of older halo, where you and your friends could earn recon armor from doing the vidmaster challenges, and that armor meant something because everyone who saw it knew you guys put in the hard work, not just charged your credit card.

This game can have pay for cosmetics and stuff, but it needs fundamental changes to how experience is earned and levels are gained and actual rewards. Right it means nothing to win/lose or perform in any way. You can literally afk this game non stop and get the same experience as someone who's going 20 and 0 if they aren't also getting any of the mediocre assortments of challenges, so what motivation is there to ever play the game, much less play as a team. Even people who want to play are going to focus on their challenges not the game itself.

It's a flawed system and structure and its sad.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:57 am

The campaign is included with Game Pass, which means that most everyone in the Xbox ecosystem will be able to play for the price of a subscription they already have. But that's a fair point.

I also share nostalgia for the days of Halo 3 and Halo Reach when you could unlock cosmetics without a Battle Pass, but I think that's an unrealistic ask. I'm nostalgic for $6.99 Marvel Legends, but those aren't coming back, either. In order to support games after launch, developers need to use the "games as a service" model. I paid $20 for Rocket League back in 2016 and have spent at least $65 on cosmetics and Rocket Passes since then. I think $85 is a pretty good value for the 670 hours that I've spent playing the game. I would've paid $20 in 2007, but the game would've been abandoned by now. Support from people like me has allowed the developers to continue fixing bugs, adding game types and events, and maintaining the servers and player base.

I agree with you about the challenge system and performance-based XP. But this game is still technically in beta, and 343 has repeatedly said that they're tweaking it. The reality is, the game launched without server crashes, bugs, or extreme balance issues. For a 2021 game, that's a goddamned miracle. The player base loves the game and is extremely engaged. The only problem is the reward system, which they are actively working on. That's a damn good problem for fans and devs alike.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:15 pm

The fact that they came out with a fully functional game with good servers and fairly glitch free gameplay is testament to the work they put in. The fact that they came out with the battle pass, the prices and everything else setup was clear the goal they intended. Now that fans have outcried they're backpeddling slowly, every game does this. I experienced this same stuff with destiny when they started working towards becoming a free to play game and pushing more microtransactions.

I just think that the experience gains and unlocks should be free regardless, and then the battlepass or microtransactions should be for extra cosmetics that are for fun. I want some stuff that is unlockable purely by your efforts in the game.

I understand the needs for microtransactions and the process but they could be doing it better, and i think they are just just came out swinging heavy and will trim as needed to try and appease fans until they find a happy medium, but right now i feel like there's little reward for playing unless your wanting to pay more money.

Yes also while i pay for gamepass and enjoy the benefits of free to play games, its part of the package and equatable to purchasing the game itself. I dont see any reason to make excuses for poor implementation of micro transactions. It's clear the intent was to put as much as possible behind a paywall to push people to buying coin, either to get the level and exp boosts, or the cosmetics. Yeah they will fix it to make it better for everyone to quiet the outcry but its clear they came with specific intentions and its disappointing to see it.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:32 am

The XP gain was unbalanced at launch. It's cynical to assume that 343 did that on purpose. But this is where it gets a little silly to me. How should they make money?

The gaming community has agreed that pay-to-win is [email protected]#$. Somehow, EA and 2K still use that model. If anything is monetized, it should be cosmetics. That's exactly what 343 did from the start.

I'd say it depends on what type of reward you're looking for. Do you need the cosmetic carrot to play the game? Or are you playing for the social elements, quality gameplay, etc.? I like the unlocks, but I'm definitely in the latter camp.

Magnuz wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:15 pm
I just think that the experience gains and unlocks should be free regardless, and then the battlepass or microtransactions should be for extra cosmetics that are for fun. I want some stuff that is unlockable purely by your efforts in the game.

How is this different than what they did? There are some cosmetic items included in the free Battle Pass.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 pm

So far from what I've seen there's been maybe two. The rest are unlocked but unusable without the battle pass.

What I would prefer is just have a base game with unlockable gear through progression and play, i.e. challenges unlocking unique armor or cosmetics and base xp unlocking simple cosmetic stuff.

Then have the store for either the option to buy stuff without doing the work or have different unique stuff in tbe store all together.

All the battle pass does is basically say pay us up front to play the full game we said was free to play. It's free to play but you don't get any real rewards from playing unless you buy that battle pass.

Sorry challenge swaps don't count and the second xp gain I got from the free track was also locked in the battle pass just like all of the cosmetics I've gotten. Since the first one or two. It's hardly a "free path" it's just one without any rewards for playing.

So if they want to parcel out part of a 60 dollar game pre launch and say its free to play but ask you to pay an extra 10 dollars, or closer to 20 if you want the premium, because even worse you can't just buy the pass you have to buy credits. While you can buy the exact amount for the basic the premium costs enough that requires buying bundles of credits over what you need to cover it.

So if you wanna go all in your paying almost half the cost of the retail game just to be able to use the cosmetics you unlock in the games progression reward system. Not get them because they are a pass reward, just unlock your ability to use the things you've already earned through play.

Add to the fact that I don't know if this battle pass is a one time thing or if it will be required to buy new ones every season and the whole thing is a massive pay wall.

You can defend their decisions but the intent was clear. Thye gave us a base multi-player with slow xp system(no xp outside of challenges and rhey had to add a 50xp for playing a match after launch due to complaints) and an extremely limited free track that locks 95% of your rewards behind the battle pass pay wall.

They clearly did want people being able to progress too quickly which can be a reasonable idea but they were too extreme in their limitation, and they give players an obvious easy out by just paying cash for credits (25 level instant boost, xp packs in store, most all cosmetics locked in battle pass etc).

So yes I think they were very purposeful in trying to take the multilayer part of their full game release and milk as much extra money as rhey could out of it when it could have been much simpler and more user friendly. In the end yes rhey need to make money on the game but when making as much as possible more important than delivering a complete experience I take issue with it. Yes I can play matches and gain xp but unless I pay money nothing I do matters because my unlocks are locked by battle pass.

If you are fine with it and enjoy it more power to you but 343 are big boys and rhey don't need anyone defending their actions which are clearly trying to make as much money ad possible on the online component to their full release game.

It's not a good system it may get better as they buckle to demand and pressure ro change, alot of games do that. Don't defend them as trying, all they did was swing for the fences on monetization with the obvious plan to reel it in as needed to appease fans but still make money and it's a shifty Era of video games and its sad to see it in halo. I never got deep into mcc or it's system so it's newer to me here and it's disappointing.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:30 pm

Magnuz wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 pm
All the battle pass does is basically say pay us up front to play the full game we said was free to play. It's free to play but you don't get any real rewards from playing unless you buy that battle pass.

I just, like ????

This is Xbox's tentpole franchise. They're going to try to monetize it.

My response is the trite cliche that nothing in life is free. But this game is about as close as it gets. The multiplayer is free, the campaign is free through a subscription most Xbox gamers have anyway, and the only thing you need to pay for is extra cosmetics, which are in no way central to the experience. In fact, other than the in-game menus, customization screen, and pre-match introductions, you won't see your Spartan at all.

I understand the frustration at the lack of free cosmetics, but this is as free as games get. It isn't pay-to-win. You aren't charged for power weapons or extra lives in multiplayer. Would you rather pay $60 upfront and get two years of support before having to buy the next title? A title that may not be as good or command the same player base?

Magnuz wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 pm
Sorry challenge swaps don't count and the second xp gain I got from the free track was also locked in the battle pass just like all of the cosmetics I've gotten. Since the first one or two. It's hardly a "free path" it's just one without any rewards for playing.

Again, I hate defending the corporate entity, but this isn't just about Microsoft or Xbox. The developers at 343 are real people who need this game to succeed. That's tricky in an extremely crowded space. They determined that the F2P model would bring in the largest player base. The whales (those who spend hundreds on cosmetics) basically keep the game afloat for the rest of us. That's a good thing.

The free cosmetics are few and far between, but that's normal for Battle Passes. Rocket League's free Rocket Pass only provides about one cosmetic every five levels. For the rest of the levels, you don't get anything at all, so Halo's challenge swaps and XP increases are more than fair.

But again, this is all coming to you completely free. You aren't required to spend a dime to play a (great) game. Not a bad deal.

Magnuz wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 pm
So if they want to parcel out part of a 60 dollar game pre launch and say its free to play but ask you to pay an extra 10 dollars, or closer to 20 if you want the premium, because even worse you can't just buy the pass you have to buy credits. While you can buy the exact amount for the basic the premium costs enough that requires buying bundles of credits over what you need to cover it.

So if you wanna go all in your paying almost half the cost of the retail game just to be able to use the cosmetics you unlock in the games progression reward system. Not get them because they are a pass reward, just unlock your ability to use the things you've already earned through play.

Add to the fact that I don't know if this battle pass is a one time thing or if it will be required to buy new ones every season and the whole thing is a massive pay wall.

I'm not going to argue intent, because there's no way to know. I agree that the original system was predatory, and they seem to be listening to feedback about that. Yesterday, they changed the challenges so if you play six games in one day, it's worth one level of Battle Pass XP. That's without doing a single extra challenge, some of which you will accomplish through natural gameplay.

I spent $10 on the Battle Pass at launch, and I'm already level 20. I didn't buy any XP boosters. The Battle Passes never expire (which is unusual), so even if it takes me 10 years, I'll still be able to complete it.

If you want the premium items, you'll have to buy a new Battle Pass every season. If you buy the $10 Battle Pass every season, and every season is six months long, you'll spend $60 over the course of three years. And if you don't like a season's rewards, or you already have a spiffy Spartan, you don't have to buy the Battle Pass. I skip Rocket Passes all the time when the items aren't for me.

It depends on how you value your dollar, but I've already gotten more than my money's worth for $10. Playing a $60 game for 10 years isn't a reality anymore. Games as a service are more profitable, so they aren't going anywhere. But when the whales cover the operating costs and the game is ostensibly free, I find it hard to complain.
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Re: The Official Thread of The Fwoosh Team, Vol. 7

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:46 pm

I don't think its fair to say that 343 did this to benefit the games survival. Halo is a top tier franchise, its the single biggest xbox exclusive game and has been since its original release on their first console. Its a console seller and a mainstay of their brand. They don't need to incentivize people to play they are waiting for it. The fact that a remastered collection of old games can still carry a multiplayer system that's active like the MCC shows that they don't have to do anything but bring the game and people will show up and pay to play it. Every game prior has been a game you bought and got multiplayer with and had stuff you could earn in it. I don't mind the idea of monetizing aspects, just maintain the playability of the game and they didn't with this launch.

They neutered progression and paywalled earnings to motivate players to spend money to feel like they were progressing, or ignore playing the game in favor of just completing challenges and bailing for sake of actually gaining xp. They've realized how they screwed up and are trying to fix it, which is great, but they still came out guns a blazing in the wrong way with this franchise. This isn't call of duty which has to reinvent itself year after year and try to keep the kids happy enough to waste money. Halo is an evergreen franchise that despite some mediocre moments in its history has stood out as a top tier game, both in single player and multiplayer since its first release.

This system felt predatory, and aggressive against the fan base, and i was disappointed, and i don't see a need to spend money on the game when they are being so obvious about their intentions. Yes gamepass grants you a free game and i enjoy that privilege but theres people who don't do gamepass and will buy this and having the multiplayer "free" was already a thing, it didn't need to be segragated like its its own thing even though the damn menu shows campaign so its not. It is still part of the main overall game release and should have carried a reasonable progression and unlock system that worked with a monetization system to give them the money they need for operating costs of game as a service. They didn't need to do what they did and im merely expressing my disappointment with it. I'm sure it will get better and it already is being made better bit by bit, but the stain is still there and im just sad about it. I generally gave up on multiplayer games some time ago, i'm too easily frustrated to keep up with the skill level, or just random crapshoot of games with lag, cheating, or whatever to keep it worth playing, but halo has always drawn me in mostly with the feeling of progression and what i could earn and enjoy and this game felt like they took all of that away unless i ponied up extra fees and i didn't agree with how they handled it.

As i said, doesn't really matter, i'm playing spider-man, and when the halo campaign comes out i'll play that, this multiplayer will be alot more reasonable and approachable later if i feel like trying to get back into it.

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