Pro-Wrestling Discussion

What makes Fwoosh culture? Food, clothes, random thoughts, whatever - this is the place to talk about it.
User avatar
TFitz
Master of Avatars
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 22611
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:18 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:34 am

KnightDamien wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:21 am
TFitz wrote: Helluva PPV! Hadn't watched AEW in probably over a year, as I was just watching too much Wrestling, but damn, if you take out the Big Show match, everything was good to awesome. The highlights for me.
Did you manage to watch the Punk first appearance on Dynamite? Because man.. that reaction will stay with me forever, even if he didn't even wrestle.
Not live, but I saw the AEW link pop up on YouTube, so I saw it there. One of the biggest pop's I have ever heard! That's largely what got me to watch the PPV.
User avatar
Analog Jote
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2674
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:23 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:02 am

Been lovin AEW so far, and All Out was just awesome. Even if none of the matches make top ten, the moments definitely do. Have to say my.favorite match was actually the brit baker vs kris statlander. They really brought it, best aew women's match since brit vs thunder rosa. Amd have to say, ruby soho was my favorite debut even over Adam cole/ Bryan Danielson. I just felt so happy.for her and the reaction she got even before the debut happened. That said, Danielson is such a game changer (along with punk). And his promo and the post interview he gave have me so hyped. Even more.so than Punk, and im a huge punk fan.

As an aside, if you yall havent been following ethan page's vblog on youtube or sammy guevara for that matter theyre pretty good. Ethan Page is one of us, hardcore toy collector and collects ML and Mcfarlane DC figures amongst others. Although warning, if you want to hate him for being a good heel then dont watch, because it does get.hard to hate him after seeing what hes really like in real life, imo. Shows how good of an actor he is cause he's such a prick on AEW. Then watched hia blog,.complete opposite. Same with Sammy, though at least he's a face now.
User avatar
Boy Wonder
Attempting to Avoid the Void
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 18624
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:32 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:09 am

I’ve been so Luke warm on wrestling the past few years, even stuff like NJPW and ROH, but this past month has completely rejuvenated it. I’m completely sold on AEW.

Going to Dynamite in Cincinnati tomorrow and I can’t contain myself. Bought they tickets a month ago just for fun, but now not only will I get to see Jericho, MJF, Jungle Boy, and the Elite, but Punk, Danielson, and Adam Cole? Dude.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:35 am

TFitz wrote: Not live, but I saw the AEW link pop up on YouTube, so I saw it there. One of the biggest pop's I have ever heard! That's largely what got me to watch the PPV.
I was going to watch the PPV anyway, but I actually only watch AEW casually. I was like three or four episodes of Dynamite behind when I heard Punk was going to debut, in fact. So I would have watched the PPV eventually. But Punk's thunderous debut made it must-see. Really glad they didn't whiff it on delivery. I honestly think they put down a good enough PPV that if you came for Punk and weren't convinced to keep watching AEW because of everything else that wasn't Punk... then you probably just don't even like pro-wrestling.

Analog Jote wrote: Been lovin AEW so far, and All Out was just awesome. Even if none of the matches make top ten, the moments definitely do. Have to say my.favorite match was actually the brit baker vs kris statlander. They really brought it, best aew women's match since brit vs thunder rosa. Amd have to say, ruby soho was my favorite debut even over Adam cole/ Bryan Danielson. I just felt so happy.for her and the reaction she got even before the debut happened. That said, Danielson is such a game changer (along with punk). And his promo and the post interview he gave have me so hyped. Even more.so than Punk, and im a huge punk fan.
Dude, I think I actually agree that Baker/Statlander was match of the night. And I really don't know where I'd place it against Baker/Rosa -- almost as good? Better? I'd have to re-watch both matches. But Baker is damn fantastic, and her match against Ruby is going to be the shit.

Seeing Ruby so incredibly happy in her debut really choked me up. All these guys. You can see how stifled they were in WWE, and how drained of passion they were as well, by how they react to finally being treated like they matter and put in a position to shine.
I'm personally probably most hyped, after Punk, for Adam Cole. That dude is a future legend. But I can't imagine saying anything was as impressive as the reaction Punk got. That might go down as one of the greatest moments in wrestling history just from the crowd reaction alone.

Bryan's energy was definitely way different from Punk's. He said it himself - he's not doing the calm 'I want to mentor and work with the young kids' thing - he wants to kick their [email protected]#$ heads in. This is going to be a Bryan Danielson we haven't seen in a very long time and I am so here for it.


Boy Wonder wrote: Going to Dynamite in Cincinnati tomorrow and I can’t contain myself. Bought they tickets a month ago just for fun, but now not only will I get to see Jericho, MJF, Jungle Boy, and the Elite, but Punk, Danielson, and Adam Cole? Dude.
I'm guessing you'll be home from the show by the time you're on here again -- how was it?!
jimbles
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:59 am

Imagine someone telling you in 2020, "before 2021 is up, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Aleister Black, Ruby Riot, and Adam Cole will be in one episode of Dynamite." What a crazy ride this year has been for wrestling, and we're just 3/4 of the way in. God, I can't even imagine what November has in store for us with Full Gear.
User avatar
Boy Wonder
Attempting to Avoid the Void
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 18624
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:32 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:34 pm

Show was a blast! Didn’t know they’d be taping Rampage too, so we got Dark, Dynamite, and Rampage. The venue was great, a fairly small arena. No bad seats in the house. Moxley was getting monster hometown pops. Probably more than Punk or Danielson. Pillman Jr was getting some good hometown reactions too.

PAC vs Andrade was definitely match of the night. Wish I could’ve seen some of the Elite do more, and there was no Jericho to sing along to, but still a great night.
jimbles
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:45 pm

I'm happy to read about Big E making his way up the path, as a person he really grew on me in the days following the death of Jon Huber and it's nice to see good people rewarded. But man alive... when you have to have your talent go on their social media, spell out in no uncertain terms exactly what they are planning to do, give a specific time frame, and do it well in advance of a show just to ensure the ratings in spite of the entire core concept of the MitB surprise element... is it really all that entertaining? It feels like they deflated what could have been a great PPV moment for him because AEW put on their motor these last few weeks.

But, on the other hand, these guys are hired exclusively to do exactly that: get ratings. From a fan perspective there's grounds to complain, but as an employee he did his job and can still reap benefits.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:29 am

jimbles wrote: But, on the other hand, these guys are hired exclusively to do exactly that: get ratings. From a fan perspective there's grounds to complain, but as an employee he did his job and can still reap benefits.
Yeah - no complaints can or should be leveled at Big E. The same way you don't get mad at Bray Wyatt for getting released, or Dolph Ziggler for not having a worthy title reign. These decisions are way above them. If they're doing what they're asked to do - that's all anyone can expect. And I am also very happy to see Big E with the strap. He deserves it.

That being said, the cash-in was garbage for exactly the reason you outlined. We've come a long way, in the wrong direction, from The Ultimate Opportunist deciding the best storyline move with the rule as written was to wait for his opponent to be beaten up and surprise him with the cash-in, because announcing it beforehand is ridiculous.
It was a bad decision the way they handled Big E, and it's an even worse decision for them to claim it has nothing to do with AEW when anyone 'smart marky' enough to ask that question knows full damn well what the real truth is. WWE is more committed to denying concerns over AEW than they've ever been to putting on quality wrestling programming. And it's insulting to their own fans, since many of them (clearly) are also AEW fans.

WWE has every tool to be doing WAY better stuff and they just don't because there's like three or four old white guys at the very top that still think Hogan/Yoko was one of the greatest matches of all time.
jimbles
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:28 am

I go on Instagram, and it's like a murder scene in the fallout of Dark Side. It's pretty amazing. For us lifetimers it's like we grew numb to the bullshit of these carnies and the horrible stories and justifications that they bring forward. You go through the classic rosters in your head and it's one creep after another, and the collective thought process from the fandom (thanks in no small part to the revisionist narrative of WWE's home video market) on their actions is absurd. "He had sex with her when she was 13? What a cad that guy was! He tore a piece of a man's face off? What a legend! He beat people nearly comatose at bars for sexual pleasure? Guy was something else! He got away with killing her because his boss convinced the cops he didn't speak english? Classic move!"

But then you get these outsider viewers who never watch wrestling but will watch DSotR as a side thing in between Netflix murder mysteries, and with their gut-punch reaction you can really get an accurate assessment of how truly [email protected]#$ up wrestling culture is. When WWE presented this incident with cartoony storyboards while detailing Ric's life in his vanity 30 for 30 feature, it's all smiles and giggles from the cartoon flight attendants in the background, but then you let the world see the human trauma by interviewing her and it just becomes revolting what WWE has allowed and propagated.

Of course, even with the outrage, the big name guys will always be protected. Tommy Dreamer is neck deep in the shit at the moment, but ol' Ric? He'll be fine. Same with all of the big draws. Bring out Deborah for one of these programs and Stone Cold won't sweat it much. The list goes on.

I will say that, on a side tangent, I also feel bad for Andrade in all of this. Seems obvious they were lining up Ric for him, and to make that an enormous breakout TV moment for him. But I imagine (though I could be wrong) that Tony will look at it as far too toxic and the female talent probably made that well known. Which, shit, yeah, naturally they would and should, and it's good that they can be respected enough as an element of the workforce that consideration of their feelings would keep away an old f*** that got FAR too many chances in life.

But, once again, it feels like whatever moment Andrade was going to be getting, it's probably stalled out. Maybe the bigger lesson for Andrade is to build him as an in-ring force and to not latch him onto someone. Obviously that hurts him from a language perspective, but AEW fandom has shown historically to respond well to international performers with language barriers.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:13 pm

I feel like this won't come off as bandwagony because anyone that has read my posts here knows full well where I stand on Ric Flair. I've always hated him as a person, disliked his work as a wrestler, and thought he was MASSIVELY over-rated on the mic. Especially in modern times. People STILL want to see him pop up on WWE or AEW? Like [email protected]#$ why? Every promo he's cut for the last ten years has been a drunken garbled [email protected]#$ mess that you can barely understand while he progressively turns redder and redder until you think he's about to die in the ring.


And I don't necessarily think everyone just accepted who these people are. It's more that most of us can't really DO anything about it. My constant railing about what a gigantic piece of shit Ric Flair is has never made any difference. The proof is in Hulk Hogan. How many times in this very thread or in the Elites thread have I made a point of saying that Hogan is a racist, vile piece of shit and no one should buy his merch or beg WWE to put him on TV? What answer do I always get? You know exactly what answer I get.


Those of us that have been TRYING to hold these [email protected]#$ scumbags accountable for their [email protected]#$ have -constantly- been shouted down and ignored because wrestling fans -want- to bury their heads in the sand. Not because they think this behaviour was okay, but because they want to like their favorite wrestlers and they're willing to do any mental gymnastics to do it. That's why Chris Benoit still has fans and people clamoring for [email protected]#$ toys of that child-killer.

Because when it's all internal, just between us wrestling fans, nothing ever happens and there's almost never accountability. I'm glad for 'cancel culture' and the general awareness stuff like DSotR (and even just Twitter) has brought to people outside the fandom, because weirdly enough it seems like accountability only happens when you involve people that don't even like wrestling.

[email protected]#$ Ric Flair, though, in case I wasn't clear about that. And [email protected]#$ Tommy Dreamer too.


Andrade seems cool. He's a fantastic performer and I'm sure he'll be fine not getting stuck into a shitty storyline with a drunken loser that would have just overshadowed him anyway. AEW has proved they're extremely capable of making good storylines and building stars. They don't need Flair for that.
jimbles
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:05 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:13 pm
I feel like this won't come off as bandwagony because anyone that has read my posts here knows full well where I stand on Ric Flair. I've always hated him as a person, disliked his work as a wrestler, and thought he was MASSIVELY over-rated on the mic. Especially in modern times. People STILL want to see him pop up on WWE or AEW? Like [email protected]#$ why? Every promo he's cut for the last ten years has been a drunken garbled [email protected]#$ mess that you can barely understand while he progressively turns redder and redder until you think he's about to die in the ring.
I think he got a big revival these last few years because somehow, some way, the rap community and professional athletes latched onto the Slick Ric persona, and it trickled out so that he's super over with the black community now. And that had heavy implications because historically they signal what the white youth will deem cool (or perhaps I'm over-simplifying it). But these things are ghosts of the past, no question. There's the vintage clips of Ric brimming with confidence, and then there's the sad-sack used car salesman type of guy that he is today. Him being on TV nowadays is the personification of the sound that a balloon makes as it is slowly and comically deflated.

Andrade seems cool. He's a fantastic performer and I'm sure he'll be fine not getting stuck into a shitty storyline with a drunken loser that would have just overshadowed him anyway. AEW has proved they're extremely capable of making good storylines and building stars. They don't need Flair for that.
It's the rub that people wanted more than anything, and the grander narrative of how complex the whole thing is with Charlotte and her place in WWE. So yeah, I agree, the desire to see Flair for most was a superficial type of thing and not really central to showcasing the quality of performer that Andrade is capable of being.

For my personal viewing experience, I just wanted to see Andrade get aimed in a direction and to finally have the trigger pulled. Vickie, Chavo, Ric... it was irrelevant who spoke for him (or if he even had a rep), so long as he could get an angle and let it run. But now, who knows what they're going to do. I trust Tony to help right the ship for his advancement on programming, but you can never trust fans to stay interested. Especially when week after week, there's so many new shiny things popping up that makes the luster of Andrade that much less noticeable. He *should* be neck deep in a riveting storyline running both parallel to and enmeshed with the most interesting tag team dynamic in the industry at the moment, so hopefully they can make up lost ground and really embed him into it.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:30 pm

jimbles wrote: There's the vintage clips of Ric brimming with confidence, and then there's the sad-sack used car salesman type of guy that he is today. Him being on TV nowadays is the personification of the sound that a balloon makes as it is slowly and comically deflated.
:lol: :lol: Exactly.

jimbles wrote: It's the rub that people wanted more than anything, and the grander narrative of how complex the whole thing is with Charlotte and her place in WWE. So yeah, I agree, the desire to see Flair for most was a superficial type of thing and not really central to showcasing the quality of performer that Andrade is capable of being.
I do see where people were hoping it would go. I would argue that 'the rub' doesn't actually exist. Hear me out.
Who is Ric Flair? Some ancient wrestler that would not be recognized by young fans. So there's no 'rub' for Andrade from him hanging out with some old dude that can barely speak as far as younger/newer fans are concerned.

So the 'rub' is for people that know who Ric Flair is. BUT... those people also know that Ric will do anything for a payday, so him working with Andrade isn't support for Andrade even if you care what Ric thinks. The people that would even care that Ric Flair is standing next to someone probably already have a high opinion of Andrade, and Ric being next to him wouldn't change it if they -didn't-.
Ric can't wrestle, so he's not going to put the rub on Andrade by giving him a fantastic match.
Ric isn't really even beloved enough for Andrade to get a 'rub' off beating him up or being mean to him, because Ric has been in that exact storyline so many goddamn times now that no one really cares.

Arn gives the rub because he hasn't sold himself and his reputation out to the point where people are aware he'll just do anything. So if he is with someone, you do get the rub from him because you're like 'oh man, Arn likes this guy so he must be tough.' You know? What rub does Ric bring? None. He's worthless.


And my sincere hope is that AEW pivots this into keeping with the storyline Andrade already has, because I think it's good and it can really go somewhere.
I LOVE when we get 'I don't need to cheat to win because I'm just that good' villains with moral character. That doesn't happen enough.
User avatar
hurricanebtvs
Wannabe Mod FAIL!
Contact:
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: House of Anubis. Woo woo woo, you know it!
Posts: 4253
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:38 am

Can I add [email protected]#$ Terri Runnels on top of all that for hand waving the allegations at the end after saying she's had loads of stuff happen to her.
jimbles
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:34 pm

Looks like AEW and Owen Hart's family are joining up to create a tournament in honor of him. Spoiler tagging the press release:
Spoiler! :
AEW and The Owen Hart Foundation Enter Into A Relationship to Honor World Renowned Wrestler Owen Hart’s Legacy

September 20, 2021 – All Elite Wrestling (AEW) and The Owen Hart Foundation (OHF), a nonprofit charity which provides a vast range of assistance and opportunities to individuals in need across the world, are collaborating to honor the legacy of late wrestler Owen Hart, a beloved figure in the professional wrestling community and beyond. This collaboration includes launching the annual Owen Hart Cup Tournament within AEW, which will see the winner receive a Cup known as “The Owen,” as well as the production and distribution of unique and original Owen Hart merchandise, including specified retail goods as well as the upcoming AEW console video game.

This alliance incorporates opportunities to develop Owen Hart action figures via AEW’s partnership with Jazwares, apparel, posters, and additional collectable merchandise. Owen Hart is survived by his wife, Dr. Martha Hart, who spearheads The Owen Hart Foundation with a mission of providing global aid to at-risk communities (e.g., scholarships, housing, various forms international assistance, food drives, backpack giveaways and Christmas projects).

“AEW’s relationship with the Hart family dates back to our inaugural pay-per-view event, Double or Nothing in 2019, and Owen’s influence is still felt today,” said Tony Khan, AEW CEO, GM and Head of Creative. “To extend his memory and his legacy even further through this agreement is a powerful and meaningful moment for the entire wrestling community.”

“The Owen Hart Foundation is extremely pleased to partner with AEW in this wonderful joint venture to honor Owen’s substantial international wrestling career and the lasting influence he and his craft has had in the sport. AEW’s Owen Hart Cup Tournament serves as a tremendous tribute to Owen and provides an incredible way for professional wrestling enthusiasts to celebrate his work in a most fitting way. We trust that Tony Khan and his amazing AEW team will do a brilliant job with this highly anticipated project. This OHF/AEW partnership is my special gift to all of Owen’s magnificent loyal fans who forever remember him and his inspiring repertoire of talents,” said Dr. Martha Hart.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion

Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:17 pm

hurricanebtvs wrote: Can I add [email protected]#$ Terri Runnels on top of all that for hand waving the allegations at the end after saying she's had loads of stuff happen to her.
Is that what she did? I may have TOTALLY misunderstood her comments, but I thought she was basically saying 'you people only care when it's someone that doesn't entertain you anymore - but you'll never hold them accountable when they're popular.' Like, we're all outraged about Ric Flair but 'no one' is outraged about Brock Lesnar even though he did almost the same thing. She said it years ago and it barely made the intra-wrestling news then and still barely makes the intra-wrestling news.
So I mean.. she's right, isn't she? The entire locker room culture is [email protected]#$ up and disrespectful and no one takes it seriously. But again, I may have taken that way the wrong way and maybe she was implying everyone should just get over it.

jimbles wrote: Looks like AEW and Owen Hart's family are joining up to create a tournament in honor of him. Spoiler tagging the press release:
A-waitforit-MAZING.

Absolutely wonderful and I can't wait.

While I consider it very much ancillary to how cool this is - I wonder how they'll do action figures. Owen Hart is mostly only known for wrestling in WWF. Can AEW even make figures of Owen as he appeared in WWF? Because if they can.. I also want Sting from WCW and Bret Hart from WWF in the AEW line. But also, how absolutely pissed is Mattel going to be.

Return to “The Bar With No Name”